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West on appointed school boards
08/09/2007 8:14 AM by John M
7th District School Board Representative Keith West, elected last November, quoted on a recent proposal to change the school board from being an elected body:
“We’ve had appointed school boards before and they didn’t seem to do such a great job, and I don’t know why it would be so different now.” [via]
It’s funny that Wilder is in favor of a popularly elected mayoral position, but not the school board. He’s out of control.
i am guessing that some of the letter signers do not live in the city and cannot vote in a city school board election.
I understand the motivation behind this measure and think it might help a bit. Currently, Richmond has 3 feuding power structures. The Mayors Office, the city council, and the school board. If the School Board was appointed, they would be aligned with whomever appointed them, cutting down on one layer of infighting.
Plus, it might do away with one layer of provincilism and create a system where school board members, not facing constant re-election, could stop pandering to their own district and make the tough choices that might benefit the city as a whole.
I find it stunning that this proposal has generated these kinds of responses. Has our experience with elected officials been so good that we automatically assume that people who are elected are competent?
Now, I don’t mean to suggest that Keith West (or any other member of the school board) is necessarily incompetent … I’m just observing that an election does not ensure that the people being elected will be techincally proficient at the job they are elected to do.
Really, the issue here is accountability. Elections ensure — in theory — that the elected officials are accountable to their constituents. But, if the officials have no control over the purse strings (like ours) the board can always point the finger at the other elected officials. We’ve seen this scenario played out with great drama over the last couple of years.
The proposal, as I understand it, is to make the school board responsible to the mayor and, therefore, the mayor accountable to the public for the health of the school system. I think that makes sense.
And, why shouldn’t the local businesses be interested in improving the city’s schools? They pay taxes. The quality of the school system is directly relevant to their ability to attract employees to relocate to Richmond and has a direct impact on their employees quality of life.
I just don’t understand the mindset that gets so upset with ideas for change when the status quo is so demonstrably defective.
Dear Archie,
You have made some good points, however, I fail to see how anyone who hides behind a name like Archie Bunker can criticize anyone for not being accountable.
Lu Motley
But our schools in the City are so great!
Young families are just flocking to Richmond when the kids reach school age!
Why would you want to change that, Archie? (yea, just a hint of sarcasm….)
I spoke last night to a former teacher, retired just this past January, from the city schools (actually, an elementary school here in Church Hill). She commented that something has to be done, we’ve now gone from graduating 53% to graduating 47% of our high school kids. That is really sad. Actually, it’s pathetic. No wonder the businesses can’t attract qualified workers – more than half of the kids entering high school in this city don’t even graduate from high school. And that doesn’t mean that those who do graduate can actually read and write…
I have to agree with Archie’s comments, Lu.
Lu,
I’m sorry you have a problem with me not revealing my real name. For the record, however, I never criticized anyone for not being accountable. I criticized the system that does not make them accountable. Semantics aside, I use the same moniker every time I post and I have been around for a while now. You wouldn’t know my real name anyway, so how would me giving my real name make me more accountable? Perhaps somebody who doesn’t like my position on schools, crime, geese or other community issues could find out where I live and do something about it? Now, I really don’t think that’s the case, but I’ve had my house robbed once since I’ve been on Church Hill and I will do everything in my power — no matter how insignificant — to avoid it again. So I’ll simply continue to enjoy the protection the fig leaf of a nom de plume provides until john m decides I am no longer wanted.
I bet none of the business owners have children in Richmond Public Schools. I do not want my power to elect the school board taken away as I have a direct interest in this matter as my children do attend Richmond Public Schools.
There may be problems with the schools, but there is also a lot of good. No one speaks about the positive progress the schools have made. I know because my children attend a fantastic public school. The teachers are great, they are taught respect and other values in addition to the regular curriculum, they provide a low-cost and excellent after-school program that assures they are safe, and best of all, it is a local neighborhood school we can walk to (if needed), allowing us to be more involved and their schoolmates are also their playmates because we all live in the same neighborhood.
I know not all the schools make the grade, and this needs to be fixed. But it is very important to allow the residents of Richmond to have a voice in the matter. I have sat at the bus stop and listened to the concerns of the neighborhood mommas, and I urge them to get involved. Not everyone has a choice to send their kids to private school, and even if they did, most of us want our kids to go to a school that is close to home.
We need to find teachers and parents (with children in the schools) with the qualifications to be on the board. I was stunned that hardly any of the members of the school board has a direct interest (i.e., kids in school or being teaching profession in RPS) in the schools.
The input of those of us who are directly affected by the decisions Wilder, Council, and School Board about the schools needs to be considered. I feel if the board were appointed, this input would likely be ignored.
First of all, it is absolute folly to suggest that taking away city residents’ voting rights will do anything except transfer power to unelected businesspeople… and disenfranchise parents and taxpayers.
Anyone who thinks an appointed board of Richmond-area corporate figureheads would bring city schools closer to sound fiscal management, a corrupion-free, waste-free philosophy and anything close to participatory democracy simply hasn’t been paying attention to what’s been going on around here for the past, oh, 15 years.
As has been noted in the press, and several area blogs, the mayor and these same members of the “business community†have been less than stellar when it comes to soliciting, and incorporating, civic participation for the area boards they’ve convened over the past two years. From the performing arts center project to the Broad Street CDA to the expanded Convention Center and the Sixth Street Marketplace… right on down to the mayor’s “private” committees of friends and flunkies…
– They’ve held “public†meetings that were never advertised or were shielded from the eyes of taxpayers….
– They’ve eschewed people with expertise because they weren’t a part of the club or had dissenting opinions to offer…
– They’ve spearheaded large projects, unaccountable to the public, that have cost the city millions through waste and inefficiency and near-obscene salaries…
– They’ve refused to either live up to the deals cut with the city or to reveal the full details of how millions in public funding will be used for those deals….
– And they’ve said one thing when it comes to their relations with the community, while doing another (Hi, Mr. Trani!).
Gosh, that sounds an awful lot like our current school board, doesn’t it?
Tell me again why this is such a good idea.
“we’ve now gone from graduating 53% to graduating 47% of our high school kids”
The vast majority of the blame for this statistic lays at the feet of the parents not the school board/system.
I would like to see the source for the graduation statistics. Does anyone know where to find this? I’ve been googling around and can’t find it.
I’ll bet you can find it here (although I haven’t looked):
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/
The school board is an administrative body. There is no right to elect it just like there is no right to elect a building commissioner or the state corporation commissioner You already elect a Mayor and Council. The school board as it is has become a shadow City Council. It has politicized an adminstrative function of the local government. The elected school board isn’t repairing, renovating or consolidating school buildings, test scores aren’t impoving more than incrimentally, if not going down, and apparently the graduation rate is that of a second-world country. It’s time to smash a calcified system.
You need a Board that can be fired when the schools falter – and voters aren’t firing anyone, so put it in the hands of someone who will.
Also, the fact that business people don’t have their kids in these schools is a great point, but not in the way everyone keeps making it. A lot of business people in other (but more successful) southern cities of our size have their kids in public school there. That should raise a red flag, but not in the “they can’t tell us what to do” way a few people are preaching. Saying that the business people don’t live here or send their kids to our schools only says our schools aren’t good enough for successful people to think they can send their kids there, which is the point of the letter.
School Marm certainly has a different opinion than mine. I think my opinion comes from a distrust of the current administration and its plans for the schools. Also, elected school boards are not unique to Richmond.
I still believe that there are positives to the RPS that can be built upon, but the schools are being used as political instrument. This is such a shame, and allowing the board to be appointed will only further this.
beth,
Why? Why will allowing the board to be appointed further it being used as a politcal instrument?
People need to be sure what the statistics
are.I don’t believe what these business owners and Wilder are saying anyway. These are the same business owners whom backed Wilder for his campaign. Now look at the city, a pure disgrace. This Mayor wants to fight everybody(Short Man Syndrome). Wider has got to go, and I don’t need any business owners making any decisions for my children.Anybody who supports this idiotic mess is plain pathetic.
FYI These “business owners whom backed Wilder for his campaign” did so hoping for change. Obviously, something has to be done, but everyone is fighting him every step of the way. People have a hard time accepting change, even if it’s for improvement and accountability.
whatever,
What statistics? Since you have your mind made up, you must know them, right? Please enlighten us.
The city wasn’t a disgrace before? Oh please.
Sure, some of the people who signed that supported Wilder for mayor, but Jim Ukrop is hardly a Wilder flunky. And, MeadWestvaco wasn’t even here when he was elected.
You know, I’m not 100% convinced of the whole appointed school board idea, but I have heard very little actual logic on here about why it is such a bad idea. Saying things like “Anybody who supports this idiotic mess is plain pathetic” isn’t very convincing to anyone except those that are used to being bullied.
By (nearly) every objective standard, Richmond schools are bad and incredibly inefficient. Many of the responses I’ve heard in opposition to the proposal have made excuses for why things are hard here and, effectively, a defense of the status quo. I believe that the kids deserve better than the status quo. I’m open to ideas about how we get there. What are you suggesting? Is it any less “idiotic” than the proposal that was made this week? Even if you have good reasons to dislike the proposal, isn’t it a good thing to have the business community apparently united and motivated to try to improve the situation? How wise is it to turn your back on them as they are trying to draw attention to and use their resources (intellectual and probably money) to help fix the problem that practically everyone agrees exists? Are namecalling and insults the best way to open a dialogue to address your concerns? How does that help the kids?
No i dont have a hard time accepting change. I’m all for change. I don’t like what this mayor is doing. It is a disgrace and everyone is talking about it. This is not just about the children. This is a power grab that is going to fail. The people will definitely have a say so in this. Make no mistake, I’ve been living on Marshall St. for over 30 years and I have never seen this type of performance from any Mayor. It’s a disgrace. Yes I said whoever supports this is pathetic and anybody can see through this BS. Bob, everybodys not fighting him, he’s trying to fight everbody. It’s a disgrace. I voted for him last time but I made a terrible mistake. It’s a disgrace. The children deserve better, and it’s not a school system issue. The problem starts at home.
Bert Berlin has an interesting perspective on this issue in his blog “James River Maven”. Also check out the previous entry, Okay, Let’s Talk About Schools (Part I)
archie, I was interested in what your take is on the links I provided above; I think Bert makes some good points.
beth,
I found them to be mostly thoughtful, but apologetic (meaning focusing on the point that the deficiencies with the schools are the result of a laundry list of supposedly unique — a claim I dispute — ills in a way that essentially tries to justify the substandard results) and, therefore, ultimately not constructive. In partcular, although I concede that the second author’s point about the perception of the school system is an important point, the mayor’s badmouthing of the schools does not make them bad. They are bad for other reasons. I also found the statistical focus on the graduating class to be a gigantic red herring, especially since one of the principal problems with the school system is it’s failure to graduate students. Also, the fact that some students are going to college is a very, very low standard to meet. I would want to know much more about those statistics. How do these figures compare with the surrounding counties? How do they compare with peer jurisdictions? What do college admissions people think of the quality of Richmond schools? Do graduates attending college need an inordinate amount of remedial coursework? Do coleges feel that Richmond students are adequately prepared for college?
I also find the unsupported assertion that the letter claims to offer the only solution rhetorical and offensive in that it appears intended to stifle debate by assigning motivations that may or do not exist. I don’t know if everyone has actually read the letter itself, but that, I think is a usefukl exercise. http://wric.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/schoolsystemletter.pdf
One of the things I see on those links and here is a tendency to make personal observations and assume that those personal experiences amount to evidence. Personal experiences are anecdotes, not data. The school system is much larger than the experience of a couple of people in one school (within which, experiences may differ dramatically).
I am also interested in your response to my question above. Why will allowing the board to be appointed further it being used as a politcal instrument? While I’m at it: whatever … what statistics are you referring to?
Before, I was asking about the graduation rate statistics.
Question 2: If appointed, the make up of the board could be structured to serve the “appointers” political agenda. If elected, I have a chance to have my input heard.
Those who are directly impacted by the school system should absolutely have a say. I feel like you are implying that Richmond citizens are not smart enough to elect their own officials. To look at this issue solely as a scientist and ignore the social impact misses the point.
Also, to compare the school statistics to the counties without taking into account the special issues of at-risk students is not a fair comparision.
Do you know how impacted I would be if Wilder closed down my school? I would probably think about leaving the city. Or if they stopped funding some of the “non-instructional” budget items like free breakfast and low cost aftercare? The financial burden on me would be unbearable. And, these options usually are not available in the county.
Please check out the schools for yourself. They are always looking for volunteers at Chimborazo and Belleview (these are the only two schools I have been involved with, so I cannot speak to other schools failures or successes).
Look at what happens when the topic of school closure and consolidation comes up…parents descend upon the school board and scream and holler. The school board backs down because they have to get re-elected.
Often times it is not the elected officials that fail, but the voters. We have transformed into a society that screams anytime an issue even remotely impacting us comes up and then we threaten and cajole our representatives until they vote our way. The representatives need to stay in office to get anything accomplished, so they eventually cave in. And this is why nothing of any real substance gets done in the political arena. No one is willing to risk being ousted from office for tackling these issues. This is why, on the federal level, no one will fix medicaid or social security. And on a local level, why no one is willing to make the tough choices needed to fix the city schools.
Perhaps, by insulating the school board from their districts might allow some progress to be made.
Interesting point, I hadn’t seen it that way before.
I disagree. If we are hollaring for a change and the school enacts that change, they are not “backing down”. They are listening. Again, it seems like the assumption is being made that the people who are actually impacted by the school system are somehow too stupid to assess the changes that need to be made.
I think the point I want to make it that there is a very human component here and just looking at statistics without first checking out the schools and special issues they face in the city of Richmond will not solve the problem.
And, no matter how good a school is, you cannot always overcome environment. If we want to raise graduation rates, I really think we need to figure out a way to pull our youth out of crisis.
Under the proposal, the people will elect the people appointing the board. Those elected officials will be accountable to the people. This isn’t a crazy idea. Most of our government works this way — from the Supreme Court to each of the administrative agencies to our own state courts. Your voice will continue to be heard.
I’m not going to say that people aren’t smart enough to elect their own officials … but, I’ll say this: I don’t have a Ph.D. (or even a masters or bachelor’s degree) in education. How am I supposed to evaluate the merits of one candidate or another without knowing something more about what they intend to do on the board? Campaign promises? Ok, even if I could rely on a campaign promise, how can I be sure that the person making it has the appropriate academic/intellectual background? This is clearly an extreme analogy, but we wouldn’t want doctors elected by popular vote would we? I know that I’d want a group of people who really know something about medicine to tell me who is the best qualified person.
The comparison with surrounding counties is absolutely fair and indeed necessary. People make these comparisons all the time when deciding where to live or invest their company’s money. If you offer an excuse like “well, we have more violence than the surrounding counties” you only make the decision to leave that much easier. The result we need to achieve in this city may be more difficult to achieve here than in the counties, but that doesn’t mean failure is acceptable. (And, as the letter observes, it’s not clear that Richmond is even doing a good job compared to other similarly challenged districts.)
I have nothing but the highest respect for educators. Indeed, I think that they are — across the board — way, way underpaid. The job they do is, in my opinion, the single most important job anywhere. Period. In my mind, the issue here is how do we put our educators and our kids in a position to succeed?” And by “succeed” I mean succeed at or above the levels that the counties boast. I don’t want our kids to have a second-class education. The fact is, that’s what kids in Richmond get now … a second-class education. Something needs to change. What I have seen this week is a group of deep pockets step forward and offer to help only to have a vocal part of the public scream bloody murder. My feeling is, if you don’t like the proposal, the discussion has been started, let’s hear your ideas. If the only response I hear is “some of our kids go to college” or some similar obfuscation, an opportunity has been lost. Eventually, the entire city will pay if nothing changes … many, if not all, of the businesses that signed the letter (probably not VCU, I guess) can substantially reduce or eliminate their presence in the city and with them will go jobs, taxes and intelelctual capital that is critical to the viability of this city.
Archie,
I disagree. You can ask any parent, we don’t need PhDs to see what works and what isn’t. Our evidence is our children, and we definately know when something is not working.
I disagree with you on the statistical comparision as well. I answered your questions, even though I am afraid of being attacked by some of these posters. I challenge you to check out the schools and see how “bad” they are yourself.
The reality is the public school system has sucked for so long that, most parents that use the schools system don’t have a clue to the possibilities that exists for their kids. We as parents must insist on a school system that provides the best education possibly for our kids. We have to stop letting people rationalize why our kids have to settle for less (Oh they’re poor, they’re needy, they can’t learn because of home, they’re this and that), bull shit, being poor or having problems at home don’t equal being unable to learn. That’s just an easy way of saying I’m not willing to put forth an effort or willing to make some difficult and unpopular decisions. Its not a secret that less then 50% of our kids graduate for high school.. The school system used to quote the stats often until others begin to question what the hell they were doing! Yes, we may have a few half way decent schools, but don’t ever child in this city deserve an EXCELLENT education. I don’t care how we get it done, let’s just get it done. Appointed or elected the first priority should and must always be the kids.
Hmmm. Ok. I’ll ask a parent.
Archie: So, Archie, tell me, as a parent do you feel qualified to evaluate whether a school board official knows enough about education to do their job?
Archie: Why no, Archie, I do not. I’ve attended some of the most highly rated public schools in the country, received a degree with a double major from an elite public university and earned a (very expensive) post graduate degree, but I’ve never studied education at all. I don’t feel that I could form an informed judgment without knowing more about educational best practices, benchmarking and the like.
Archie: But, Archie, if your child is doing well, doesn’t that mean the school is good?
Archie: I don’t think so. I think it means my child is doing well. The quality of the schools is a much larger issue than my child. Thousands of parents in my district may not be so lucky to have their child be doing well. The fact that my child is does not mean that I shouldn’t be concerned about how theirs are doing.
On a serious note, beth, are you seriously saying that Richmond schools are working?
Here are some stats, in 2005-06:
Richmond schools scored 12 points below the state average in English, 10 points below average in Math and 6 points below average in Science. What’s more, there were 1067 “serious incidents” in the 49 Richmond schools during that time — as a point of comparison, Henrico had 170 “serious incidents” in 64 schools during the same time period and Chesterfield had 390 in 60 schools.
A more interesting comparison might be with the city of Hampton, which as essentially the same number of students as Richmond (22265 to 24226). Hampton’s students scored 7 points better in English, 2 points better in Math and 2 points worse in science. Notably, Hampton has similar issues with “serious incidents” as Richmond — 1032.
I’ll let you make your own determination about what these statistics mean, but I’ll observe that based on this data, if Richmond schools are good, Hampton’s are terrific. Do you really believe that?
It is sad that a”Parent of 5″ feels that the school system is failing when, in reality, the parents are failing. The school system is not a replacement parent for what should be encouraged at home. There are many community organizations that are interacting with the school system to achieve the goals of basic education to replace the lack of parenting and encouragement provided by the fathers and mothers of the Richmond School system children. One good example is the Micah Program started by St. Pauls’s Episcopal Church downtown. They have been working with Woodville School for the last five years to tutor the students to excel in the basic skills. This has worked well, and provided that school with the leg up to achieve amazing results. We can’t change the parents, but we can change the students, by participating in helping the schools achieve the success they desperately require. What we all need to do is step up to the plate and volunteer our time, even just a little each week to mentor and support our kids in all the schools.
That is an excellent point. Some changes though could be to stop throwing money away that have no purpose or results and use the money for programs such as you mentioned. That’s where change could be a good thing. Some new eyes to reevaluate with fresh ideas and input.
Good morning Celeste:
Hope you are wide awake the day after your birthday. You have every right to agree with A. Bunker, just as Edith did. But, Celeste, when one chooses to voice/write their opinion with such verbosity about the Richmond Public Schools, they should at least use their real name.
I have been here too long and done battle with too many North and South of Broad to be afraid of reprisal. Also, I have been teaching in Virginia since John Kennedy was in the White House which means little except I think the officials at the City Schools should do something other than hire and pay big bucks for consultants from the outside.
The Micah Program at Woodville and the volunteers from St. Stephan’s at Fairfield are trying, but learning how to spell and read and write are only part of an education.That is the question. What is education all about?
Also, at least Keith West is trying and Archie no name might do more than criticize.
Lu Motley
the best way to insulate school board members from their districts is to appoint citizens of chesterfield to the richmond city school board
Hello another voice heard from. Aren’t they elected?
Lu
OK Lu, tell us what education is all about. You seem to be the expert, here.
Lu,
If you want to engage me on the issues, do it. But, your fascination with my real name is creepy. Stop it. As I’ve siad before, my family and I have already been the target of crime since moving here, and I don’t intend to give anyone a reason to do anything else to us if I can help it. If you have a problem with that, you’ve made it known, now move on.
The reason for my verbosity is that I feel it is important to have a basis for my opinions, and if I share my opinions, I ought at least also share my reationale. In that vein, you don’t seem to think that Richmond schools are terribly effective (“The Micah Program at Woodville and the volunteers from St. Stephan’s at Fairfield are trying, but learning how to spell and read and write are only part of an education.”). So, what do you think the answer is? Do you have any reasoned response to my “verbosity” or are you content to lob personal character attacks at me? Your preoccupation with my real name suggests you think I have some ulterior motive here or something. If that’s what your getting at, just throw it out here and I’ll be hapy to disabuse you of that notion.
And by the way, I’ve got no beef with Keith West. I think he has been trying very hard to make a difference and I give him credit for it. Something needs to be done. I don’t claim to have all (or even any, necessarily) the answers, but I’m quite sure that our current approach isn’t working. Personally, I think the proposal from the business community is interesting and positive in that it is a step toward dealing with the issue.
So, what about it, Lu? What brilliant ideas do you have to offer, or are you content with a 50% high school gradutation rate and 40 “serious incidents” each year, per school?
Geeesh Archie. I guess I hit a nerve. Though unlike you I will quit while ahead.
Also I do feel strongly that in spite of any crime you may have been the object of, that is an issue for the police, not the school board.
Bye
“Also I do feel strongly that in spite of any crime you may have been the object of, that is an issue for the police, not the school board.”
What?
It’s all well and good to bash the current system, and imply that parents are too clueless to vote on their school board representative. Same to you, buddy.
But there is a flaw if you accept the idea of an appointed school board courtesy of Ukrop’s, Dominion Resources and Philip Morris Tobacco: who says the Titans of Industry who came up with this plan have any more experience in how our schools should be run? Or would be any more accountable for the choices they would make in the name of OUR kids if they make an end-run around the Democratic process?
All we have to do is look at today’s RTD article on CenterStage in order to see what how many of the people who signed this letter continue to be poor stewards of taxpayer funds and resources, and secretive in their use of public money.
Despite the fact that it is illegal to do so — without a comprehensive agreement in place with the city — Tom Farrell, Jim Ukrop and the Virginia Performing Arts Foundation have begun to demolish the stagehouse of the Carpenter Center. Try defying city rules the next time YOU want to do large-scale repairs on a downtown building – but these guys are special, it seems. The law doesn’t apply to them.
They are SO special, in fact, that they refuse to tell taxpayers how much the construction bids were for their project, or even if they were within VAPAF’s stated budget (a budget, incidentially, that doesn’t disclose the annual operating costs for the project).
“We’re going to keep that to ourselves,” Mr. Farrell told the RTD about informing the public about the bids.
And we say the school board is arrogant? And we say the school board is secretive? And we say the school board defies decency… and eschews accountablity? It’s only $23 million in public dollars, after all. And since it is rich white men from the Counties receiving the city’s public dollars for this project, who cares if it is being used recklessly?
Once again, anyone who thinks that putting the schools under the control of the Chesterfield “Gang of 26” would be any better hasn’t been paying attention.
Another point: Where was the Chesterfield “Gang of 26” during the last election?
If their concern for the schools is sooooo great, did they just wake up to the fact that we have a problem? No? So why didn’t they make a point to help recruit and to promote worthy candidates for board elections in districts where board members ran unchallenged in the last election?
In the 1st district, home of “the business community,” they seemed to have no problem with Kim Bridges, who ran unchallenged… and has gone on to greenlight every dumb decision, and offer excuses for every stall tactic, of this school board.
So, with this letter, is “the business community” also saying that THEY are too dumb and unsophisticated to vote for school board officials? OK, so why didn’t they help to recruit a candidate to challenge Kim Bridges?
And if they now approve of Bridges, why? She’s made the same bad decisions as the rest of them (save Wolf and West).
We all saw first-hand what “the business community” can do when they want to get rid of a candidate for city office that they don’t like (see: Paul Goldman) — they mobilize their resources like a well-oiled machine. Why didn’t they do that on behalf of a better elected school board during the last election, instead of waiting until now to unveil this nuclear proposal to disenfranchise voters?
Because this is nothing more than a naked power grab, that’s why.
consider this possibility in the discussion about city schools.
many believe that the purpose of the school board and the school system is to ensure that students can get a good and valuable education and that the school system operates in an efficient manner.
state law talks about this in provisions for public education.
you will frequently hear school board members say that “it is all about the children”
on a closer look there may be some indications that “it is all about the children” is just a slogan and that the real “unspoken” purpose of city schools is to develop and maintain a social and political patronage system.
this is a very touchy subject.
there are some good people with honorable goals in the school system and this attacks those good people.
the city school system has made some partnerships with volunteers to help improve student performance and this questions the motive of those well meaning volunteers.
maybe you say it cannot be true.
would a school board with a goal to provide a valuable education with an efficient system tolerate an assistant superintendent that took money contributed from a private source to be used for educational purposes and put the money in their private bank account?
Don,
Two questions:
1) Who said the “gang of 26” wold be appointing the school board under their plan?
2) I can appreciate your reluctance to embrace this plan. Really. My question to you is “What should be done?”
The only way for the school board members to ensure they do thier jobs is to make them fear the next election. If you think for a minute that Wilder wouldn’t put someone on the board for political favors you are quite wrong…
Archie:
I think Lu has just takin a fancy to ya…
Making them fear the next election IS part of the problem – They are afraid to make concrete, controversial decisions,therefore, nothing gets done. Wilder would have to answer to anyone that he puts on the board. Be sure, they would have to be qualified, as he, and everyone knows they will be put under the microscope. You absolutely have to get a good qualified team together that can work with one another.
Archie:
Mike just said it all, really.
1. This particular group of folks have yet to go outside their club for any appointment or job hiring — and they rarely get involved with anything without insisting on running the show. For example, see the lineup for VAPAF and CenterStage – no artists or arts professionals allowed, even to oversee an arts center! If that doesn’t convince, check out the makeup of Wilder’s Education committee – all personal and political friends. From all past experience, we can see that the choices for this appointed board will be political and tied to patronage, and not geared to find the right, qualified person for the job. I seriously doubt someone like Keith West or Carol Wolf would make the grade – too independent (even though that is exactly what is needed). Lastly: these guys are not going to complain about the makeup of the board without knowing something about who would replace the board if they succeed in getting the board appointed. A deal in the backroom has already been made, and I’m fairly sure they already know who (with the mayor) they would install. At the very least, they would have veto power over the choices.
2. I think that Wilder is correct on the merits of his arguments against the school board and RPS. I think he, and we, should all start recruiting candidates NOW to run against the deadbeat school board members who fought against the mayor’s audit, or have helped to enable those within the schools to disregard the audit and perpetuate the status quo (hello Ms. Jewell-Sherman, hello Mr. Braxton).
Like I said, when the “business community” starts up their political machine, it is like a steamroller. We all saw what they can do on short notice when it is Paul Goldman running for council – why can’t they mount that kind of campaign on behalf of a new elected school board? If these guys really wanted to do something positive, they would begin a campaign NOW to make sure each and every school board race during the next election is contested, and that someone confident, independent and plugged in to the community is running. But that leaves too much up to chance and the will of the people, doesn’t it?
This is what I don’t understand from this proposal – the “Gang of 26” were missing in action during last year’s school board election. But now we are suddently told that things are so bad that we have to have our voting rights taken away. It’s just all too convenient.
Don’s points are spot on, IMO. These are the same “business leaders” who can’t manage to build a building properly; we’re supposed to trust them (and/or their delegates) to manage education? Seems to me that if you want an accountable body that doesn’t waste tax dollars, these are the last people you’d want in charge.
The only way we’re going to get a school board
Don’s points are spot on, IMO. These are the same “business leaders” who can’t manage to build a building properly; we’re supposed to trust them (and/or their delegates) to manage education? Seems to me that if you want an accountable body that doesn’t waste tax dollars, these are the last people you’d want in charge.
The only way we’re going to get an effective school board is via candidates who actually care about improving the schools, rather than using their position to stroke their own egos, as a springboard to future elected offices, or as a reward for being in the good graces of Wilder, Ukrop or Trani.
I AGREE WITH BGW. I am personally sick and tired of Wilder’s tactics. Who is Archie Bunker?(Wilder Flunky) ……………….NO APPOINTED SCHOOL BOARDS.
I’m sure that these are the same “business leaders” that brought us the 6th Street Marketplace…
There is only one reason why the city gets in bed with them…. $$$. It is not for the well being of the children.
Bob:
“Making them fear the next election IS part of the problem – They are afraid to make concrete, controversial decisions,therefore, nothing gets done”
This is the root of the problem. Not that they wont do anything but rather that WE would accept the fact that they don’t do anything. This is the same mentality as lil Johnny’s mother blaming the school that he didn’t graduate…
Why would anyone even want this job to begin with? Can you imagine having to fix a broken city school system in the framework of Richmond Politics? Someone resurrect Job… he alone would be patient enough for that nightmare…
whatever,
Archie is a Church Hill resident, property owner, parent and a man who has never met Doug Wilder. He does personally know a couple of people who signed the letter, and he is satisfied that their role has nothing to do with political patronage and everything to do with improving their community. You are, of course, entitled to remain skeptical.
Again, I’m not advocating a particular result here. I find the proposal interesting, but I’m perfectly willing to listen to other ideas. There are a bunch of people above who have reacted vehemently against the proposal — and that’s fine — most of whom recognize problems with the schools, the board or both, but so far I have not seen a single idea for how to improve the schools. Objecting to the proposal whithout offering other suggestions is, in essence a defense of the status quo. If you can come up with something that makes sense, throw it out and let’s see if everyone can get behind it.
is the primary concern about who is on the school board?
or is it
will the school system be fixed?
postings seem more focused on who is on the school board rather than how will the school system will be fixed.
you count the postings and comments and draw your own conclusion
my conclusion is the problem is that the school system fails cause it is focused on political and socal patronage rather than getting a good job done
and the postings focused on personalities mostly say that getting the school system fixed is secondary to who gets to be on the school board.
it might be time to stop fighting over who will get to control the toilet, and just get the toilet flushed and cleaned up
Archie: I did offer an alternate suggestion as a solution, a far preferable and much more Democratic one than to take away the voting rights of parents and taxpayers: Start recruiting worthy candidates.
And, by all means, let the “Gang of 26” dive right in and start that process. They’ve already got the connections, and the political machine, to roll their sleeves up and jump right in.
But instead of “solution,” I think you mean “Instant solution.” Right?
Don, I’m not naive enough to think there’s an instant solution. But, I do think we need to be looking for a solution with some urgency. You’re right, your did offer an idea … perhaps the only other suggestion I’ve heard.
I agree with bill. I really don’t give a damn how the schools get fixed, they just need to be fixed. Right now, I think we’re just starting to have an open discussion about how to do it. And, I think the “gang” is an asset in that discussion, not a liability. It is my hope that this discussion takes the tack bill has suggested and move from being less about political and social patronage and more about fixing the schools.
I just hope the people coming up with the solutions aren’t just sitting at a desk crunching figures, but are willing to check out the schools personally to see what is working and what needs improvement. I also hope that “non-instructional” budgets are not gutted from the budget as many of these items provide important services for our children.
if the system is broke, and i believe it is, and the system does not want it to be fixed, being happy with the status quo, the most effective tool is control of the money to effect a change.
the school board votes the budget and the collective seems happy. the revenue source, mayor and council have the greatest control beyond the school board. the bickering there is not likely to produce a change for the better.
so do you just go and vote? sounds mighty lame waiting for election of the lame.
the school system has been pimping the students too long. it is time the public got angry. anger can be a good thing sometimes. maybe get angry at the system. not so much name calling but more like “the system sucks and needs to be fixed”
take the system and pull the systems pants down for everyone to see
it is more fun than waiting for an election
dull much effort for change.since the mayor and council are consumed with a pissing contest there
Bill – comments on how bloated the School Board administration is? I seem to recall that they employ 500 people in administration – is that right? Are they not the folks in city hall whom Wilder has been trying to get to move out?
I think the 500 employee number is the number of people employee in Richmond Public Schools (including teachers, etc), not just for the School Board. I believe the school board uses the same support staff as RPS.
i do not want to throw out a number for cent admin staff. you can get it by looking thru school board minutes for the re-election list and then deducting the teachers shown in the school master schedules. remember to deduct the plumbers, housekeeping and security staff.
bloated is a relative term.
maybe look at the mgt-america study or current numbers for the auditor of public accounts that figures everything per capita. you can get the number of students from vadoe and substitute in that to get a per student cost and make comparisons with other school divisions
since money is the fuel of the school system and the money revenue is based on the number of students, reduce the number of students to effect control over money in an effort to fix the system.
check out the montessori topic for an alternative school that will reduce rps revenue.
The Real Problem With Our Schools, by Chris Dovi:
Mr. Dovi has more eloquently expressed what I was trying to relate to archie bunker.
I another thread about the Montessori school, one comment said that the school could help fill the gap left by St. Patrick’s. I think this statement really illustrates the lack of understanding of the community.
One of my children attended St. Patrick’s. His class had 7 children in it (the 7th grade class). The whole school had no more than 200 children total – that’s not much of a gap to fill.
And – only a handfull of those kids were from Church Hill.
Most of the kids in this community need a neighborhood school that offers special services for them; especially many of the non-instructional services like reduced price lunch and free or low cost after care.
P.S. When St. Patrick’s closed, we moved to public schools. I found that I LOVED their public school and that they were really receiving a much better education in RPS.
Richmond Public Schools have some very difficult issues to address in order to be successful. Mr. Dovi’s analysis is a good start toward appreciating some of those issues. It does not, however, seem to offer any solutions (unless you take the line about the ‘segregation’ of the neediest students into one school system as a call for a needs-based busing regime). It suffers from some chicken/egg issues. Is poverty the cause of poor educational performance, or is poor educational performance the cause of poverty? Your mileage may vary, but I believe that a well-educated person can break out of poverty and that “solving” poverty needs to start with education.
Beth, I think your observation about non-instructional services is worth underscoring. We need to be looking at every aspect of the educational environment and putting kids in places where they will have an opportunity to succeed. That may mean providing additional or different non-instruction services catered toward the particular needs of the kids/community. What services those are, I do not know.
No solutions were offered, but at least the dialog is widening. RPS is in a unique predicament in comparision to the counties, and no solution can be developed without taking this into account and striving to understand how school spending needs to vary based on locale and community needs.
Richmond.com has a couple of interesting editorials on the “Letter” as they call it.
http://www.richmond.com/viewpoints/output.aspx?Article_ID=4799933&Vertical_ID=127&tier=1&position=2
I like Leahy’s editorial. For a little while now, I’ve thought city-wide charter schools might be an answer for Richmond’s educational problems. However, I’m going to do a little more research before decide entirely one way or the other.
the number one problem at rps is that the system operates (first & foremost)for its own benefit. The education part is mostly lousey cause it is easy to cheat poor folks out of a good education. being poor does not mean that children can’t learn and be successful, it just means that if you are a poor child you are likley to be cheated by the system