RECENT COMMENTS
Eric S. Huffstutler on What is up with the Church Hill Post Office?
Eric S. Huffstutler on What is up with the Church Hill Post Office?
Yvette Cannon on What is up with the Church Hill Post Office?
crd on Power Outage on the Hill
Hookers and drugs on North 22nd; robberies north of Fairmount (UPDATED)
01/30/2008 10:32 PM by John M
Fairmount‘s ongoing problems with prostitution and drugs makes the news. So everybody knows that this is going on, now what? More signs? … Another later story also on nbc12 brings to light a spate of robberies last night in Brauers at Brauers Lane and Rogers Street and nearby on North 23rd Street. UPDATE: Arrests made in Fairmount robberies.
TAGGED: 22nd Street, 23rd Street, Brauers, Brauers Lane, crime, Fairmount, prostitute, Rogers Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX1CvW38cHA&NR=1
Well, it looks like there’s been a murder at the St. John’s Church/Patrick Henry Park area tonight.
I gotta tell ya…I’ve lived here about 5 months (in the 27th and Leigh area) and I’ve been a little concerned by what’s transpired. First, the search for a fugative….then a home invasion at 32nd a few weeks ago….and now this….
I’ll tell you what bothers me most…it’s the goddam*ned street people that just walk aimlessly and are not quiestioned by law enforcement. Clearly some of these people are just up to no good. I can’t even walk my dog without being approached and asked for money or a ride or whatever the hell these people want….Night after night…day after day….I’ve never lived in a place where random people just confront you (with groceries or kids in arms) and just ask for things.
@Drew:
Welcome to Richmond!
We’re Detroit’s ugly kid brother; still picking our nose and wetting the bed.
http://www.morganquitno.com/cit07pop.htm
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=180606
“street people that just walk aimlessly and are not quiestioned by law enforcement”
So you suggest the police stop all random people that are out walking?
Where did you live before, Drew?
I’m not suggesting that law enforcement just randomly stop people for questioning but clearly they are a nuisance and potentially threatening.
I’m very close to *buying* a home here in the Hill but I don’t know that I want to spend the next 3-5 years being hounded every time I go out to my car, bring groceries in, tend to my yard, etc…
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been interrupted ON MY OWN FRONT PORCH, while on the phone or playing with my dog…meaning I was CLEARLY occupied and RUDELY interrupted….by people who gave me all sorts of sob stories seeking money, rides, advice, etc…. or who were OBVIOUSLY high on drugs or were alcohol abusers. The worst are the ones who have repeatedly tried to lure me into the alleys….
So,. I guess I should let everyone know that long time Church Hill residents APPROVE of this behavior? What’s YOUR solution to this obvious problem?
Walking in the middle of the street at 2am…YES, police should stop and question someone like that. Shouting at the top of one’s lungs in the wee hours of morning? YES, the police should stop and question people like that. Shady street people milling about someone’s house when they’re not home? YOU BET, the police should be summoned.
I lived in an apartment on 400 block of 32nd for a year and now live at the end of Marshall Street and yes, I’ve been “confronted” by people asking for money, groceries and the like, but I figure it’s part of living in a very urban neighborhood that is still trying to right itself after many years of neglect. We have a large amount of poor people in the neighborhood, too, all trying to scrape by any way they know how.
However, I do not think this means random people should be stopped, especially when a majority of them are of black/AA descent, yes? All those people who think it’s great to honk their darn horns at 2am simply need a reminder they aren’t the only ones in the neighborhood and that many of us are sleeping. As for the people yelling while walking in the middle of the street, more often than not its just them talking to each other; their voices carry in the absence of trees or other tall large objects to buffer the sound.
A group of people hanging out on a street corner after dark can mean a drug deal is waiting to take place, but I think we shouldn’t always jump to this conclusion as sometimes they could be waiting for a ride or just happened to meet each other there and wanted to chat before going their separate ways. Naive as this may sound, I do think we can give people the benefit of the doubt every once in a while.
Btw, that apartment I lived in was right next to a crack house. After I had lived there 4 months they finally got kicked out but not before 2 people had gotten shot on their front porch in 2 separate incidents.
Now they are wrecking havoc on other unsuspecting neighbors somewhere.
Of course, no one wants a nuisance to bother them everyday. But in any densely populated and diverse urban neighborhood, you are going to find such characters.
Drew, where did you used to live before coming to Church Hill? Was it another urban center, but one without street people?
Also, while you may not be able to control all “street people”, I think you must draw the line at those who are breaking the law. Call the cops! Don’t tolerate behavior that threatens the safety of your neighborhood.
Drew:
I’m not trying to be facetious here, but if you are currently renting and considering purchasing in Church Hill, you might want to regroup and consider purchasing in another neighborhood. I don’t think you’re comfort level living here would be good for you to stay.
I think it’s paramount to feel good about where you live. Many of us experience some or most of the things you describe, but are dealing with it by organizing crime prevention in the community, getting involved in your civic association, calling the police regularly, etc. Some of us just have a different perspective on it.
Living in Church Hill has it’s challenges and requires a certain amount of vigilance as in any urban setting.
I hope that you can come to a decision or reach a perspective that makes your life more pleasant.
We moved to the Hill this past summer. The very first night we stayed in our house, a lady rang our doorbell of our completely dark house at 11:50 p.m. asking for money to buy beer before the Blue Wheeler closed at midnight. We didn’t even open the door, just said no through the glass. I do give one man some money on a fairly regular basis bc he picks up trash on our street, takes out and/or brings in our garbage cans, and I like him. He actually only asks me for a soda, but I don’t drink soda so I give whatever change I have instead. The one person that rang my doorbell the first night I lived in CH is the only person that has ever asked me for money. I hear about it all the time, but it doesn’t happen to me, for which I am grateful. I walk every morning and evening and,if the weather is nice, I sit on my front porch some nights. I do have 3 dogs, so maybe that’s why I don’t get asked??
in regards to Cgoblen remarks:
“Major crime declined 21 percent from 2005 to 2006, and it’s down another 19 percent this year. In addition, the city has seen a 49-percent reduction in random gunfire incidents, a 246-percent increase in weapons seized and a $15,000 reduction in overtime costs. With these improvements the city dropped from fifth to 15th in “dangerous city” rankings, and it’s on track to drop from the top-25 this year.
“I’m a believer,” concluded Chief Monroe. “Instead of reacting to crime, we can get out ahead of crime because we now know where and when we need to put soldiers on the street.”
Regarding the “dangerous city” report, the FBI releases the same comment every year:
“The FBI posted a statement on its Web site criticizing such use of its statistics.
“These rough rankings provide no insight into the numerous variables that mold crime in a particular town, city, county, state, or region,” the FBI said. “Consequently, they lead to simplistic and/or incomplete analyses that often create misleading perceptions adversely affecting communities and their residents.”
I have had people ask for money, but if you say no, they’ll quit asking.
Sometimes an impromptu conversion with a neighbor walking down the street is nice.
I like to get to know my neighbors; it seems they have the scoop on what is going on.
Hey “Other Mike”, the first precinct has been slipping for a while now, no matter what Lt. King says…he’s a PR guy covering up for the poor performance of his old boss, Capt. Landis, who was on the job a short 6-months up here. Glad they pulled him before things got any worse.
How can you explain that the VA STATE POLICE finally got the job of busting the drug house at 24th and M last October? We Union Hillers had been reporting individuals and vehicles for the past year at that “open air drug market”. The the local cops were whining that they “couldn’t get anyone to sell to em” at that corner.
It was a drug sniffing dog at a UPS office that finally did the job of the 1st precinct. That dog was able to get the State Police to take over where the local cops had failed.
I’m happy the prostitution issues in Fairmount got major TV coverage this week. The first precint has some serious work to do in our ‘hood. Maybe the TV news story will embarrass them into taking charge.
i bought a house on 32nd street a little over a year ago…
when i first moved in, i experienced many of the same situations that drew is describing… but what i’ve found over time that since i am diligent about saying NO to and/or ignoring the people that badger…they eventually just stopped asking me.
these people KNOW when someone is new to the neighborhood- and that’s when they hit ya’ hard trying to ask for money.
i too had people ringing my doorbell asking for money, etc… but i never give it. I will pay some of the local men for help with yardwork, etc… but i do not give handouts! if they are willing to give an effort, i will give them pay for their work-
this has seemed to work really well for me. i have a familiar relationship with several people who hang around the neighborhood. i think they know i’ll treat them fairly- as long as they treat me fairly. and as a result- they actually look out for me, you know?
so—
don’t allow yourself to be bullied in your own house drew! i’m a single 28 year old girl (by myself in the house for the first several months!) and i won’t put up with it!
look people in the eyes when they approach you, say hello in a friendly voice. if they ask for charity, firmly say no. barter pay for work. i fully advocate helping those less fortunate, but i don’t give handouts! i give annually to my chosen charities, that way i’m sure they’re not wasting my hard-earned money on crack or alcohol.
if you establish some ground rules with these people, everyone can have a pleasant symbiotic realtionship within the neighbor hood.
Good Luck! and I hope it works out, b/c CH is such a FANTASTIC place to live!!!!
I see your points and many of them are valid. I ADORE Church Hill…I think it’s a beautiful place to live and one that’s only getting better. Obviously the neighborhood is undergoing a regentrification.
I guess we just differ in some of our opinions….I mean, I don’t think it’s my job to operate a welfare-to-work program by allowing random strangers to do yard work or to have to “navigate the streets” as I walk my dog to avoid being panhandled.
Sure, most of these people are harmless and I am respectful. I don’t have much, but I realize that I’m a lot more fortunate than some of these folks. That said, don’t we pay state and local taxes to fund REAL programs so that needy individuals can tap into resources operated by professional people who do this sort of thing for a living?
Union Hill RVA. There was far more to Ladin’s (I spelled it right) departure than met the eye. There were forces there that were beyond his control. Additionally, the officers at First Precinct are responsible for street level drug dealers and any other project that may be generated by anyone in the chain of command. Long term, ongoing narcotics investigations fall to the Special Investigations Division (Narcotics Unit) and they should be doing the long term things. The State Police have been used frequently over the years by the Richmond Police to assist in enforcement and other activities.
And as far as embarrassing First Precinct into “taking charge,” do us all a favor and move, forget how to type or unplug your laptop. Those officers do the best they can given what they get from the citizens, criminals and the police command staff. Get off their backs or move to the county.
Anyone that knows me knows that I am supportive of the folks at the 1st Precinct. I’m leading with that to hopefully support the fact that I am not trying to be antagonistic when I ask this:
Given that hookers and drug have been an obvious issue in specific areas of Fairmount for at least the past 4 years, what does it take to make a real change happen?
I recently moved from the fan to the hill in the area of ceder and 24th.. I cannot be happier. I know my neighbors and we always keep and eye on each other. In regards to safety I go to work at 3:00am everyday and always keep a eye out for something feeling a miss. never an issue I will be buying a home in a year in the hill because I cannot wait to see the hill transform into what richmond represents … history and diversity. There is so much promise along these streets…;)
I echo the comments made by new to the hill and Ecogirl. I have lived here for about 20 years and am in love with my neighborhood. I also agree with Norma Jean that Church Hill, Union Hill and Fairmount are not for everyone. If you are not comfortable or do not feel safe, please move somewhere that meets those basic needs. At this point in time we live in a community that is in transition and needs the special type folks that are willing to get involved, respect people’s differences and work hard to build community block by block. If we are waiting for government to make our community what we want it to be, it will never happen. As new to the hill has expressed…I see a neighborhood where both history and diversity are valued and respected.
RTD 1/30/08 – Arrests made in Fairmount robberies:
Nikki, you don’t have to worry, after 19 year of living here, I’m not budging off the hill.
Like you, I love living here, and I am dedicated to see a continued improvement in the PUBLIC SAFETY and IMPROVED QUALITY OF LIFE for EVERYONE in this community.
Myself and many other residents who poke and prod the local police officers and STICK OUR OWN NECKS OUT TO REPORT CRIME have invested way too much of our time and energy to give up now.
I’ve even had a cop tell me I should fear retaliation from drug dealers for calling 911 when I witness a deal go down…and that I shouldn’t take the risk to put an open air drug market out of business. He was discouraging me from doing the very thing that the Chief wants us to do. Not to mention that his job would be easier if he didn’t have that corner to pay attention to. Glad he’s no longer in our 1st Precinct.
And as for the outgoing Capt Ladin, are you implying that he was NOT responsible for the actions of his subordinates? The police force operates like a military machine with supervision all along the chain of command. The guy at the top is a leader and responsible for everyone below.
As for the “forces beyond his control” please enlighten us. Don’t you think if he was doing a great job he would have kept his job? If he wasn’t able to do a great job, was it because he didn’t get the support he needed from HIS superiors? Do tell…sounds like you’re in the know.
And remember, you and I pay the salaries of the folks on the police force. They have health care and a retirement plan. They get a paycheck even if they call in sick. It’s a GREAT JOB. Taxi drivers have a higher death rate on he job than cops.
I’m not saying cops’ jobs aren’t stressful, and they might be short staffed, but that is the way of the world nowadays. We all have stressful jobs and work in understaffed environments. Is YOUR job perfect? Probably not, yet your boss expects top notch work out of you or you’re out on the street right?
It’s the same for the police. Hold em accountable.
I’m not implying he’s not responsible for the actions of those under him, he most certainly is. What I’m saying is that he was not responsible for the “low numbers” he was presented with when he got there. You don’t know it, but Ladin was trying to get apple juice from an orange.
BillConkle said something about “respect people’s differences”.
Some of those differences are the basic source of crime.
Right now it’s “You’ve got money and I don’t”. Given poor enough conditions, that could degenerate to “You’ve got food and I don’t. I’m going to do whatever it takes to separate you from your food.”
We’re not talking about differences like “You like Pinot Noir and I prefer Merlot”… the real differences cut a little deeper, don’t they?
I am curious – does anyone think the city needs a loitering ordinance? It seems like it might help with all kinds of street problems, especially in Church Hill and Fairmount. I am fairly new to the area (6 mos.).
The funny thing about open air drug markets is that they have nothing to be worried about. They go there to sell drugs because they can. If the dealers and buyers had something to fear, they simply wouldn’t go there. Not to sound like a revolutionist but, take your streets back. If the cops don’t do their jobs, then become vigilantes and take the neighborhood back. Let them know that if that kind of crime takes place in your streets they are going to get hurt. Shoot them because they would shoot you just for looking at them wrong. If they want to own the streets that you pay taxes on and scare you into just staying in your house and minding your business, then fine, live in a ghetto that will never work its way out. You need to literally take the streets back. Clean them up. Make the officers jobs easier by providing a place that worth the measley $40,000 a year to patrol and on occassion risk thier life for. If you change the atmosphere of the neighborhood, the vibe of the people will change. Its not about holding onto traditions of your hood. Its about building wealth for you and your neighborhood. Its the mindset of the residents and the police. If these activities were happening on Monument Ave you know the cops would be there in no time. Why? Because the mindset they have about the neighborhood, the community that belongs there. We need to create those same characteristics. You can’t build on a weak foundation. Sometimes you have to start from scratch by clearing out the crap and starting new. Don’t worry about the less fortunate; people will help them. But you can’t help anyone if you don’t help yourself first. Take your streets back from thug drug dealers that aren’t scared of anything. Make them scared of something…death, unimaginable pain. One of those two. Then if their little brothers are not corrupted by the same mentality, work with them. Educate them, so they know the whole world is not against them. Give them a reason to be happy and feel wanted. Its about the 40 years of neglect and lies that those neighborhoods are suffering from. Start with the children. Clean up your neighborhood by introducing fear…
Way to go 1st Precinct!! These robberies happened on my block. It doesnt shock me the perps were caught with crack cocaine.
No, a city ordinance on loitering is not the answer. Those waters can get murky. Whos to say a group of friends cant stop and chat. Would you want to be issued a citation because your out chit chatting with your neighbors.
Not sure what it takes to make an improvement on those prostitution corners. I moved not to long ago from DC, where there are alot of problem corners. There, the National Gaurd would set up with bright flood lights EVERY NIGHT. Not sure if the corners here have reached that level yet. It takes constant pressure and crack downs from police to rid the situation. I have yet to see that. As long as the undesirables have a comfort level, nothing will change.
There was quite a lot of drug activity and prostitution at the corner of Clay and 28th for years. It’s gone now, but it took a lot of effort from the neighbors to get rid of it. I also think more people moving in and fixing up the immediate area had an impact.
If I see something shady I always call and request a drive by (by the police that is…) and they usually comply.
I let the dispatcher know that it is a non emergency and they have never given me any grief about it.
Odds are they are just patrolling at that time and not on a call. I doubt they mind taking a little detour down my street from time to time.
Crimes happen everywhere, everyday and are committed by people at every socio-economic level. Only the shadow knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men and women. Every workforce has lazy people and bad people; as well as those that care and are willing to go the extra mile. The Richmond Police Dept.(RPD) is a microcosm of our own city. Vigilance by all is the answer.
Ecogirl was right on in how to deal.
If you want to see what our Police do, sign up for the ride along program. You can pick when and where to ride along. All you have to do is pass a background check and you are good to go. The men and women i encountered were professional and they wanted to make a difference.
It was interesting to see how few officers are assigned to each shift. That of course is a budget issue.
For more info on the ride along call 646-5061. or go to http://www.richmondgov.com and you can down load a ride along application.
If you really hate what is happening quit your bitchin’ and do something, call the police when you see something suspicious (call 911 or the RPD non emergency # 646-5100), start a neighborhood watch, join the police force, petition the city to hire more police. Keep an eye out for yourself and your neighbor. Pray for a safer city. We are all in this together. I wish we could just let love rule, but peace and justice take work and time.
>>No, a city ordinance on loitering is not the answer>>
Obviously, if you can prove that you and are a resident of the neighborhood (by showing ID) or are friends with someone that lives within a few blocks, the police have some leeway here.
It’s just another tool in the overall arsenal in the fight against crime.
Sorry, but in just about every place that I’ve lived, I’ve never seen people…random people…just congregate in the street the way they do in Church Hill.
G 2tha P,
Well said, very well said.
Drew said:
“Obviously, if you can prove that you and are a resident of the neighborhood (by showing ID)…”
Papers please, comrade! Your papers are not in order!
Das ist komisch, cgoblen.
Seriously, WTF?
If you want a gated community, move out to Deer Run or some other such Stepford-esque mecca of blah.
I live 3 blocks from the site where the victim was found and have never had a problem with random people congregating.
Although I admit I have yet to understand why people walk in the middle of the street instead of the sidewalk.
“Obviously, if you can prove that you and are a resident of the neighborhood (by showing ID) or are friends with someone that lives within a few blocks, the police have some leeway here.
Sorry, but in just about every place that I’ve lived, I’ve never seen people…random people…just congregate in the street the way they do in Church Hill.”
Sorry, but I dont want to live in a city where I have to show ID anytime I’m standing talking with friends, thats ridiculous. Obviously, Church Hill isnt the area for you. Where is it exactly you moved from?
>>Sorry, but I dont want to live in a city where I have to show ID anytime I’m standing talking with friends, thats ridiculous>>
Who stands and talks to friends in the middle of the street? Again, this is some weird Church Hill phenomenon….and I also didn’t say everyone should be stopped and ID’ed. What I said was that the police should have some latitude in their abilities to curb loitering
Funny, the same people that are making the comrade remarks and making the nazi references probably support a certain administration that proposed and pushed through the Patriot Act.
TO answer your question, I have lived on Long Island and spent time in Florida….before moving to Midlothian (ugh!) and now Church Hill. It was **I** who sought out Church Hill because of it’s uniqueness and the fact that I can’t stand the “Stepfordesque” qualities of palnned communities.
On the other hand, I’d be naive to just casually dismiss some of my concerns as just things being “the way they are in the city”. Frankly, that’s B.S. and you know it. What are you? Director of Media Relations for the Richmond City Police Department? While I happen to think police officers do a fine job in general, I don’t think that they do a particularly good job in Church Hill. When you can see prostitution and drug deals go down and people are getting their head blown off (piece of garbage or not), there’s a problem.
How about spending less time ticketing loud college kids in the Fan and more time patrolling the streets of Church Hill? Prioritize please!
i am surprised that people have the time to put a bunch of racial and disciminating things about african americans on this website and it is legal to a certain extent. i know that you are entitled to your opinion and freedom of speech.
i will like to clear and error on your page and maybe someone want somebody to comment. i was raised to never cast stones if you live in a glass house or if you do not want them thrown back but i guess i am prepared. i want you to know about what you all call an “open air drug market” is a family who works hard and are very close and have taken care of their family members for years who live in your so call “open air drug market” of a neighborhood. the people who you slander and deprimized their character are hard working individuals of numerous professional positions, who go by and check on their loved one until the death of one and tragic stroke that made the other impaired to take care of themself.
people in this neighborhood that lives in that same block knows, and it is only a few, knows the type of family they are and knows there was never no drug activity at that house. you cannot stop people from gathering and socializing and drinking with people who are raised and were raised in that neighborhood. this is a touchy subject but i am going to say it “everyone that is black is not a drug dealer or a crackhead”! if you may know we like to drink and socialize with caucasion, african americans and others of different origins who want to socialize with us.
i guess you all feel, all that socialize at that “open air drug market” of any race is a drug addict or drug dealer. do you ever stop to say” how are you all doing? i am mr. or mrs. so and so and i am new to the neighborhood and would like to get to know my neighbors and other people in the neighborhood? the answer NO!!!. only a few may have introduced themselves to my family and to me and have stopped to drink a beer.
i feel as if this is becoming a segregated community because you all walk the street, walk your dogs and walk pass do not speak to people of a different origin. so how do you think we feel? we dont because remember no one live their lives perfect everyone have their flaws such as rapist,pedophile,wife swappers, undercover drug addicts, people who run from other neighborhoods that cannot cope with their own kind to start off new or even people who beat thier wives. but remember as you read this others can say what they want to but think is it the truth or a lie.
i thank whoever keeps calling the law on the “open air drug market” because as you may see my family stands as one. do not think i am not reading the comments but sometimes as you are raised to turn the other cheek but sometimes you have to line your face up and fight for what is right. for those who do not live within the “open air drug market” i will applaud you with your opinion not knowing the facts and still you comment on things you do not know or even have a clue to the people you discriminating against.
i want to applaud all who figure calling the police is the answer because you have the right too but remember all people are not the same. how can a person on their own property have someone call the police and say drugs are being sold? tell me how? SCENARIO AND THIS IS TRUE!you have 5 african amercians via male and females sitting on the porch(their property and have rights to it) chatting and drinking be selling drugs after working numerous hours and figure to buy each other a beer.
i cannot stop the decisions that people make about african americans but i can make a diffeence for myself and other around me. i will not tolerate this behavior and if you feel the need to keep calling the police on the “open air drug market” then do so. we will welcome the police everytime, show our ID”S, tell them we sorry for the inconvienence that a person or persons (you know who you are and we know too) have caused and keep drinking and socializing with the people who lived in the neighborhood all their lives.
remember every house that is being sold, bought and renovates by people who have moved into this neighborhood have memories whether they are good or bad. we sit and talk about how people have moved in the neighborhood and how it has changed. how things are looking better and how it is not benefical for the poor as you can read. eventually their will be a lot more people begging for change, food, or probably a place to live because of the changes made to your wonderful “union hill”. i do not even see a representative from your wondeful union hill offering help to those who own their homes and pay their taxes to avoid losing it to help them get grants to fix their homes or loans, so we all can live like our fellow neighbors. but i guess that is not important helping other only hindering, discriminating, slandering, povertizing those who are trying to make a living,etc.etc. etc.
i am going to see where it goes from here i will be back with more comments and i hope that other people will respond trust me i will.
To concerned friend of 24th & M:
I hate to disparage your comment, but you really need to capitalize the first word of each sentence. It makes large blocks of text significantly easier to read, not to mention the fact that it lends credence to what’s written by improving the apparent intelligence of the author.
I’m not trying to be a grammar Nazi; I’m just trying to help you improve the readability of what you’ve written.
Have a great day.
cgoblen, I had just read the 24th and M comment and thought, “wow, this is great — this could actually open up some dialogue that would be helpful in fostering less of an us vs. them attitude about the different types of people who reside on the Hill.” I was thinking how great it would be if this turned into less of the Gentrifier’s News and more of a real, active, productive discussion board frequented by all kinds of people who live in the neighborhood. A great place to air differences, work towards solutions and generally make inroads.
Then your comment pretty much made it clear that that apparently isn’t where this is going to head. You invoked no less than four surefire “flame war” tools — nitpicking grammar, evoking Nazis, insulting the poster’s intelligence and the condescending friendly sign-off. Way to make sure we don’t see 24th and M again — which I get the feeling won’t make you sad at all.
Was there something in 24th and M’s statement that hit you where you live? Do you get to know ALL of your neighbors? Do you sometimes assume things based on appearance that may simply not be true? Do you say hi when you’re walking your dog? Talk about it for a minute. Forget about capitalization, just for a minute. I’d like to hear your response to the actual content of the comment.
I agree, Anne.
It was a post designed to deflate any relevance of the opinions 24th and M was bringing to the thread.
I’ve lived on my block for almost 4 years, but I’m still a newbie to the relationships that my neighbors have had with each other for decades.
My next-door neighbor has lived here since the 1940’s. Her experiences are vast, and couldn’t be more different than my own. But even though we are of different races, ages and educational and socio-economic backgrounds, we are both trying to make our lives in the neighborhood.
She has people coming and going all the time–friends, neighbors, caretakers, church people–it’s called being part of a rich community network of relationships. I hardly think she is dealing drugs 😉
People need to respect each other. My neighbors and I are different, but we also wave and say hi, ask how the other is doing, and cross the street to inquire about those we haven’t seen in awhile. It’s called being neighbors and the main reason why I love my block.
Thanks Clay Street, Anne and especially 24th and M. When I said “respect people’s differences” I meant exactly that. Just because people don’t share all of our beliefs, values and behaviors, doesnt mean we can’t be neighbors and more importantly, neighborly. The same people that you criticize and attempt to demoralize, are the same folks that will be there for you when you need someone most.
People see things differently and have a wide range of life experiences. One behavior that is often witnessed in Church Hill is folks walking in the street. While some people would see this as a crazy unacceptable behavior, others see it as a reasonable response to the environment. The brick sidewalks in our neighborhood have historically been uneven, missing bricks and sometimes have grass, weeds and trash on them, not a pleasant walking surface. Walking on the sidewalk can make you more subject to being mugged or robbed by someone coming from an alley or behind a parked car or house. The street is generally better lit and a more consistent surface for walking. The street is also wider, which allows more friends to walk side by side. The benefit of people walking in the street is that traffic naturally slows down to accomodate them. It is generally the folks that want to speed through the neighborhood that are most upset by folks walking in the street. There are some places in this country where the practice of walking in the street would not only be understood, but seen as a unique characteristic of the urban neighborhood, even celebrated. I have also not seen a huge number of folks that have been injured by walking in the street. It is a practice that seems to have few negative consequences, aside from making some folks uncomfortable.
I don’t generally walk in the street myself, because I see it differently. I feel safer on the sidewalk and just believe from my life experiences that it is right thing to do. However, I am not so self righteous to immediately think my way is the only way to look at things.
It takes time to meet the neighbors and it takes an open mind in order to appreciate people that are different from me. I just keep telling myself that people are mostly good and that all of us are more alike than we are different, and if you look for good in people, you will find it. If you look for their flaws, they will only blind you to the good.
This is not to say that all behaviors should be tolerated, just that we should treat others the way we would want to be treated.
When a person goes into a house then comes back out 5min later, and numerous people are doing the same, you know the house is a drug den. However, if people are going in and coming back out hours later, or coming back out together and either hanging out on the porch, getting into a car or begin walking down the street, you know they are for real and just socializing. There is a big difference between how the 2 will act, regardless of race, class, religion, etc.
I would really love the world to stop classifying people so quickly and with little information to back it up but then that would be the ideal utopian society, wouldn’t it?
I also thought the 24th & M post was well-written, despite the grammar shortcomings. I’m glad there are others who appreciated the substance.
cgoblen, you should be ashamed of yourself, not that it’s likely. “I hate to disparage your comment,” indeed.
Incidentally, I think I’ve seen more of the “real” Church Hill than just about anyone else that posts on here, with the possible exception of Mac Adams.
The more I think about it, the more pissed I get about some superior-minded jackass maligning a neighbor who takes the time to post something like “24th & M” did, which might get some heads out of some hineys if people actually take the time to read what was said, rather than just blowing it off because it doesn’t meet their high standards of composition.
I see a huge amount of self-righteousness in many of these posts, including the ones that claim to be defending 24th & M.
If you really want to have a conversation that’s about the subject of our differences, then quit telling folks how to behave and act in the way that you would like to see them be.
I think cgoblen was trying to encourage the conversation, not condemn 24th and M.
I consider myself a liberal, but I do get tired of the liberal sermons telling us all how to be “good neighbors.” It’s just liberal facism.
Also, some of you posters, one in particular has been very damning of certain neighbors on many issues over the years that this blog has been in existence.
Be careful to be close-minded in your open-mindedness.
I don’t know either 24th & M or you from a hole in the ground, but I know who I think has more of a clue.
“I think cgoblen was trying to encourage the conversation, not condemn 24th and M.”
Are you *serious*? Really?
I don’t consider myself a liberal at all, but I can see the value in the suggestion that people be neighborly to all their neighbors, not just the ones in their own socioeconomic class.
“Incidentally, I think I’ve seen more of the “real†Church Hill than just about anyone else that posts on here, with the possible exception of Mac Adams.”
Are you serious? Really?
How arrogant of you to assume that you are “the one” that knows the real CH.
Talk about intolerance…
In good company…
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/72960/
“About five years ago, I imagine that Ann Coulter, Dinesh D’Souza and Jonah Goldberg went out to a local bar and subsequently got into a drunken feud over who among them could write the most comically stupid right-wing attack book.
“I’m-a gonna write two books, one callin’ libruls TRAITORS and the other one callin’ ’em GODLESS,” cackled a sauced Coulter while sipping down her gin and tonic.
“Pfffffft, anyone can call ’em godless traitors,” said D’Souza. “I’m-a write a book that blames libruls fer 9/11”
Not one to be outdone, Goldberg pounded his Amstel Light on the table and rose to his feet.
“Tha’s nothin’!” he shouted. “I’m-a write a book that calls all libruls FASCISTS!”
Coulter and D’Souza burst into laughter.
“Tha’s shameless e’ev fer you!” said Coulter. “Yer own magazine used ta make a habit of praising Franco!”
“I can too write a book about librul fascism!” said an indignant Goldberg as he trudged off to the men’s room. “I’ll show you! I’ll show you all!” And that, in my mind, is how Liberal Fascism was born.
For the uninitiated, Liberal Fascism is a new book by National Review editor Jonah Goldberg that contends that Hitler and Mussolini were committed left-wingers, and that today’s liberals are fascism’s natural intellectual heirs. While this may sound like yet another Coulteresque quickie aimed at prying some money out of Dittohead Nation, Goldberg insists that it is actually a Very Serious Work that “isn’t like any Ann Coulter book” because it presents an argument that “has never been made in such detail or with such care. Goldberg also goes to great lengths from the start of the book to say that he’s not really saying liberals are fascists, but hey, here are 400 pages of similarities between liberals and fascists, and if you start associating the two of them by the end of the book, then that’s not his fault.”
It’s funny to sit back and see how these tangents grow in these discussions. So far:
People calling everyone else racist
A peeing contest as to who knows the “real” church hill
A grammar rodeo
A discussion on liberalism
and a general discussion on the merits/sanity of using/not using the sidewalk…
An argument as to whether these drugs/hookers even exist.
I’m sorry, this isn’t a community. It’s a family at thanksgiving dinner…
Have a great weekend all.
Well, Bill Conkle, that’s not what I was referring to, but if you want to make the comparison/or the suggestion of similarity that’s your choice.
I have known you to be very intolerant on this site, all in the name of justice & equality.
There’s almost an obsession with you about being “right/good.” Are you trying to compensate for what you may perceive are some personal shortcomings? Your posts have an almost confessional quality about them. Do you feel need to be admonished? Forgiven?
You can shove “goodness” down other’s throats, and then get indignant when they choke on it.
You said “liberal facism”. If it came back to choke you, please don’t blame me.
Norma Jean said:
“I think cgoblen was trying to encourage the conversation, not condemn 24th and M.”
Thank you, Norma Jean. You are absolutely correct.
I was being perfectly honest and forthright when I said I did not intend to disparage the author’s comment. There is a lot of good information there. However, many people may never read it because it is difficult to read in the way it is written. Note, I never criticized the words or phrases used. I made a comment about the visible legibility of the text.
In addition, as wrongheaded as it may be to judge someone from their writing style, people do it all the time. With an awareness of that fact, an author can better craft their message for their target audience.
Would you be happy if your teenager submitted a book report written in SMS messaging shorthand? How would the instructor grade that paper compared to another written with proper English grammar?
Note: many of those who commented on my statement made judgments about me based on an assessment of my writing style.
How hypocritical.
How can you say that you didn’t intend to disparage the author’s comment when that’s all you did? You made no reference whatsoever to the content of the comment – all you did was judge the author for his/her failure to live up to your standards. Oddly enough, quite a few people seem to have managed to wade through and pick up the same point I did.
I find it interesting that concerned neighbor comes into a thread that was, until that point an honest discussion of a problem, and cries racism, and people think that’s ok. NOBODY had brought up race. Yet when “concerned neighbor” cries racism, there are folks willing to jump on that band wagon. The only racist remarks were “concerned neighbors.” And to say that ‘“open air drug market†is a family who works hard and are very close and have taken care of their family members for years who live in your so call “open air drug marketâ€s is crazy. An open air drug market is people standing on a corner selling grugs. THAT is what we are talking about. So “concerned neighbor” must be saying drugs is the family business, and we’re supposed to accept that. I won;t go into the pros and cons of legalizing drugs. That’s a completely different conversation. But at this time, the illegal drug business is probablt THE major contributor to crime in the area. It effects everyone. To have the whole conversation here diverted because someone cries racism is ridiculous. It is just a reflection of the sad state of debate in this country.
Bill Conkle:
I know you are, but what am I?
Grow Up!
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=147884&title=jonah-goldberg
Jennifer C. said:
“How can you say that you didn’t intend to disparage the author’s comment when that’s all you did?”
Jennifer, I did nothing of the kind. I made a comment about legibility and I informed the author of the text in question that there are those who would disdain reading it due to assumptions about the author’s intelligence.
“You made no reference whatsoever to the content of the comment…”
I’ll grant you that. For me, the words of _concerned friend_ speak for themselves.
“…all you did was judge the author for his/her failure to live up to your standards.”
Once again, I said nothing about the words or phrases used. I made a comment about *visual legibility*. Weaknesses in my visual cortex set those standards, I’m afraid, and it is demonstrable that others share that weakness. I did say that there are those individuals who would make assumptions about the author’s intelligence based on the failure to capitalize the first word of each sentence.
Are you seeing the distinction yet?
“Oddly enough, quite a few people seem to have managed to wade through and pick up the same point I did.”
This doesn’t surprise me in the least. You manufacture issues to suit your worldview. Essentially, you are guilty of the very behavior of which you are accusing me.
Wait, what was the topic of this post again? I forgot.
thedudeboy55 said:
“But at this time, the illegal drug business is probablt THE major contributor to crime in the area. It effects everyone.”
Yeah! And it *affects* everyone, too!
Sorry. Couldn’t resist. 🙂
Honestly, that’s a great comment thedudeboy55. Drugs certainly do seem to be a prime mover. Not sure about the ramifications of legalization, though. Even if legal, drugs would still cost money, and drug users often get to the point where they can’t hold down a job… hence property crime results. The addicted will steal to pay for their legal drugs.
Back to your previously scheduled half-brain-dead flamewar.
The point here is simple. How dare I have a different opinion from someone else. How dare I disagree with Norma Jean? How dare I say that Norma Jean and cgoblen and other like minded folks dont represent what I believe and dont represent the feelings of many of my neighborhs and friends?
The point here is that if you disagree and stand up for what you believe, you are personally attacked. I stand by my posts and encourage others to stand up to the divisive, intolerant attitudes of a few people (with many different names) who anonymously represent Church Hill as a place of intolerance.
“…battle of wits,” etc. My goodness.
Y’all have a nice night up there on the Hill!
After a hard day at work!
Well I never thought this will go this far in reference to my grammar ratification of capitalization of the next sentence. I apologize to readers, liberalist and capitalist in which it affected their visualization and intelligence of myself for what thats worth. When I was writing my opinion of what my family and I go through it was to reach out to the residents of churchill and union hill. The points I was getting across will stand and still remain the same “Everyone that is Black is not a Drug Dealer and a Drug Addict. People who still and will consider that if you have people who gather and socialize at a dwelling (whether it is on a corner or in the middle of the block) is an open drug market, then so be it. Everyone is guilty of that no matter what origin you are. The difference is that i am not calling the police saying that their is drug activities happening at your home. I look at it as you are having family and friends over. I cannot change the minds of what people think about people of different origins. But how would you feel if the police get an anonymous call saying that I beleive that you are having a party and I think that your company and you are “getting high” and you have respectable people over and the police just stroll through and say “We got a call about drug activity here!” Do everyone have ID? How would the people at your home feel? Or even your friend that do not indulge in drugs? How would your company look at you or what would you say? I am trying to get a respectable message across of common courtesy to your neighbor. I cannot control the traffic of public street no matter what time it is. I cannot control drug user for what they choose to do or how they choose to live their lives. People of the street have respect for me because I do not belittle them for the choices that made in life but I remind them if they find God and change their ways life will better for them whether on the street or when they leave this place we call”Earth.” Racism is everywhere and it is in everyone. Whether it is in the text you speak, write or the way you look at a person who is not on the level of standard that you wish. If you feel that the family in which I wrote about is what you think contributors to the behavior in this society or your wonderful Union Hill then I cannot change your opinion or mind. It is not in my intention to do so. Negativity is tolerable from everyone. The negative energy a person possess shows the type of individual that you choose to represent. I never once attacked you for your thought only to the fact of it affecting people around me. I am going to continue to speak my opinion because I am entitled to it just as well as people who commments on Chpn.net. I am going to stick with what I believe. I applaud and commend those who read my blog even though it had the capitalization errors. Maybe the person who created this web-page can re-vamp it to include a tool bar to correct grammar and textual errors. I do not attack those who are getting their point across or telling how they feel when they may mispell a word,do not capitalize or do not end their sentence with punctuation. I look out the eyes of the writer and feel their point whether I agree or disagree with what they say. To you and your fellow neighbor, I am not here to make you look good or bad. I just want you to get to know your neighbor whether you approve of what their beliefs are or not. Remember, people who are streetwalkers may save your life. People who you think are just hanging in the neighborhood to do whatever you think they are doing may see a streetwalker rob you and run to assist you. If you do not get to know them then you all know the saying “A person can see and dont see”! To the person who feels the need to say a close nit family is a drug family no matter how hard we work and pay our taxes then so be it. I can care less if you care about how it affects my family. In reference to my remarks it will remain the same whether you think it is racist or not. I am speaking on an actual fact of what happens to me and my family when we get together, sit out and drink and talk about old times in Church hill. People who use to live in the neighborhood stops by when they see us to say hello and catch up on old times, see how the children have grown,to see the new addition to our already huge family, to see who is still living and who have died, etc, etc etc. But do I owe you or anybody and explanation? NO!! If people want to take my comment the wrong way then I cannot HELP that. I will like for you to “Do unto others as you want others to do unto you!” My family and I are not Drug Dealer or Drug Users. Alcoholics! Yes! Hard working professional who needs a drink at the end of the day.YES! Do we bother anybody? NO! Do we care after my text that you feel any different? NO! My back yard remains clean! Is yours? The things I report are factual, dated, recorded by myself. I just want readers, people of Church Hill and Union Hill to look at people of different origins for who they are and not what you and others perceive! I was born and raised in what was called Church Hill and have lived in 2 houses around here that you have since renovated and is part owner in one. The choices in life people make or label that they carry is of what they choose not for you or I to choose for them. I am sorry for the confusion it may have cause to those who read these blogs and get lost. This is a way for those who live in Church hill and Union hill to communicate amongst each other. I guess to end this note and wait for more comment. Oh by the way, Have a nice night,too.
I wish that people would take the time out to know the elderly people of that house. Get the facts before you go typing your wrong info. 1st No Drugs was every sold out of that house. 2nd Any one who knows that family know that they have alot of grandchildren who checks on them everyday and they all have professional jobs. They can not control where people decide to sell there drugs. They cannot control the traffic of the public street and side walk. they are not the Richmond Police Department. If we could control what others do in America we would be Crime and Drug Free. By the comments on the page others can’t control whats going on in there blocks as well. All they can do is call the police just like you. Try reaching out to the ederly couple who pay taxes on the house like you pay on yours to see if the need your help with the OPEN AIR DRUG MARKET in there neighborhood.
Thedudeboy55:If you were reading the comments you would have none that their trying to say that the OPEN AIR DRUG MARKET is actually the family’s house. How would you fill if you had a very large family and every time you sat outside on the porch some one called the police and said they are selling drugs. People need to realize that if you lived in a neighborhood for 50years you watched the neighborhood grow up,kids have kids etc. Everyone knows you, so their going to stop by and sit and talk. They have sat on that corner house for years talking and now because Churchhill is being “Historic” again its a problem.
Bill Conkle:
The point is that you can “dare” to have the right to disagree with anyone you want to. That’s what cgoblen, dudeboy…, etc and myself are also doing.
It is not personally attacking someone to quote them from other posts, or reference their past posts and challenge their view point.
You never address those challenges, instead you respond with quips, quotes, rhetoric, AND yes, personal attacks.
Would you like me to dig up some archives of your quotes?
Those quotes show that YOU are incredibly intolerant and add to the intolerance in this neighborhood. Not that I care that much, except that you make a career out of being the righteous one.
To “Concerned Friend of 24th & Mâ€
You said “i do not even see a representative from your wondeful union hill offering help to those who own their homes and pay their taxes to avoid losing it to help them get grants to fix their homes or loansâ€
If you know someone who needs help repairing their home go to http://www.elderhomes.org.
Their mission is to improve the housing and living conditions of elderly, disabled, and low-income persons in our community.
If you know someone who needs property tax relief, go to http://www.ci.richmond.va.us/forms/taxrelief.aspx
Also, Union Hill Civic Association meetings are held monthly and publicized on CHPN. We usually meet at Cedar Street Baptist Church, on the 3rd Wednesday of each month at 7pm. Please join us!
Please take comfort in knowing that it’s obvious to me (and many others) that many of the folks enjoying the company of others in the vicinity of 24th and M are NOT drug dealers or users.
Unfortunately, some (note some, not all) of those folks who have been known to hang out near that intersection are there to sell/buy illegal drugs. It’s unfortunate that those individuals give the corner a bad name.
I’m glad that you, like me, hang out with your friends and family outside, on the sidewalk or porch and socialize. It’s these genuine human interactions that makes Church Hill/Union Hill such a nice place to live.
I appreciate your point of view that you can not control what others do. I agree with you that neither can I. However, I and many others in our community, believe we can INFLUENCE the actions of others. Even if it’s as simple as discouraging the presence of individuals engaged in illegal activity in our neighborhood.
Drug activity brings gunfire. You and I are thus always at risk from a stray bullet, fired by drug dealers who will kill to resolve their differences. Thus, crossfire puts our lives and property at risk, not to mention the children who play on our sidewalks. That’s why I want the drug dealers to leave the area around 24th and M.
Ms. Jefferson makes a very good point however, if I go to someone’s home to visit them, I usually stay with that person. Not down the street, with others that don’t know the person that I’m “visiting.” One should also have enough respect for yourself and your relations not to yell, scream and/or throw trash and other stuff on the ground and in the street. If that’s the kind of person you are, maybe you weren’t raised that well and should be policed by the police. Also, there have been many instances of children and grandchildren selling drugs out of grandma’s house. Don’t make that face, you and I both know it happens.
Bill Conkle —
Did you seriously just rationalize walking in the middle of the street? I could probably think of half a dozen reasons why that’s a bad idea (off-hand … safety, coutesy, setting examples for kids), but I’ll settle for the snarky: I’ll accept people walking in the street if you let me drive on the sidewalk.
One other thing, if people don’t talk to you on the street, it may have nothing to do with your color. It may just be that they don’t know you. For people who aren’t from here originally, talking to a stranger on the sidewalk may be completely alien. The first time I came to this neighborhood, I walked past a guy and as we neared each other he said “hi” … I said “hi” too, but I was floored. I went through my mental rolodex, wondering if I knew the guy from somewhere. It took me several weeks, but I realized that some people around here just do that. I was raised to never talk to starngers, so I don’t. It has nothing to do with their color. I would encourage folks not to assume that it is a racial thing and give people the opportunity to be nice to you … even if it may take a while.
Archie:
I agree that assuming something about another person is not usually a good idea, and for the most part only promotes more misunderstanding. We were all raised differently and have had different life experiences.
I don’t walk in the middle of the street for the same reasons you gave. However, when I asked someone why they chose to walk in the street, they gave me their reasons, which I reported in the post above. I think using the sidewalks is the wise choice, but I am not so wise as to think there may be another perspective, perhaps just as logical.
I was raised to speak to everyone that I meet, whether walking on the sidewalk or in the shopping mall. I don’t think I would be able to stop it if I tried.
I didnt mean to be advocating for people to walk in the streets (especially children) but I just wanted to demonstrate that we all have our life stories which shape what we do and who we are. And that it takes a conversation sometimes for us to better understand eachother.
And for the record, I stand by my posts.
If someone were to say “I am tired of living around Green People” Would you think they a) Would welcome Green People to their home? b) Would encourage Green People to participate in community organizations? c) Would later pretend to care for Green People? d) Work hard to get all the Green People out of the neighborhood?
BillConkle said:
“If someone were to say ‘I am tired of living around Green People'”
Hey! *I’m* green you insensitive clod!!
Clod is not as much fun as “liberal facist”, but your effort is admirable.
Well, back to Drew. I think you are evading my questions: since you keep comparing CH to where you’ve lived before, won’t you please tell us where you used to live?
In answer to post #74, Drew told everyone where he lived in post #38:
“TO answer your question, I have lived on Long Island and spent time in Florida….before moving to Midlothian (ugh!) and now Church Hill. It was **I** who sought out Church Hill because of it’s uniqueness and the fact that I can’t stand the “Stepfordesque†qualities of palnned communities.”
I did not read all of the postings, but I must say after reading #2, “I have been there and done that”. It was so disheartening to move into my beautifully restored, very expensive, historic home and awaken to gun shots and a dead guy lying in front of my house one month after closing on my home. I immediately put a for sale sign back in the yard. Thankfully, we did not move. After alot of getting to know my neighbors, joining CHA, becomming a block captain, working together with local folks, calling, calling, calling every number in the Richmond directory… my block is totally clean and to the point where I feel comfortable walking out of my back gate, late at night, to empty my trash into my can in the alley. If you are not willing to work hard, leave. I did not think that I was willing, but 1 1/2 years later, I live in the best area that I have ever lived. We need good neighbors. Try to hang in there.