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West joins board of school choice organization
Keith West, the current 7th District school board representative (and who is not standing for re-election), is a new board member of the advocacy organization School Choice Virginia, joining representatives of “church schools, the Virginia Catholic Conference, home schoolers and the Family Foundation of Virginia“. SCV supports legislation that would offer tax credits to individuals and organizations that make contributions “for scholarships to allow students to transfer out of their school district to public, parochial or private schools”. The RTD supports the idea; here is a counter response by 4th district school board candidate Bert Berlin.
Below is West’s response when prompted to explain the appeal of this group, his take on the Family Foundation of Virginia, and how school competition could be helpful to already struggling public schools:
First off, I don’t know anything about the Family Foundation of Virginia. I was contacted by delegate Chris Saxman, a longtime advocate for school choice, and asked to be on the board. It’s a nonpartisan group. Another member is head of Democrats for School Choice.
My entire position is that the public schools aren’t going to reform themselves. There is not a single urban school system in this country delivering the education needed by the students. As some point we’re going to have to quit doing the same ole thing hoping it will work, and try something different. School choice won’t lead us to educational utopia, but what it will do is provide competition to the public schools and give justice to disadvantaged students forced to go to schools not doing the job.
School choice started nearly two decades ago as a cause of the right. That is quickly changing as urban dwellers are realizing that their clinging to government operated schools are doing little good.
George Bush, Republican Chris Saxman and organizations like the Family Foundation of Virginia want public schools to fail. They are not asking for vouchers to improve public education through a good dose of competition instead they are attempting to privatize it. You think schools are bad but just wait until it becomes big business like prisons. Having a democrat member will not convince me that School Choice is a descent organization. Go to the Family Foundation link John posted above and read for yourself how much they like the poor, gays, and women.
People don’t fall for it -vouchers will not help the poor, the disabled, or those who are academically behind get into good private schools and here are some reasons 1)the government will not give you more than half of what it costs to educate a child in a public school. For example, half of $13,000 is $6,500 or half of $8,000 is $4,000 which is not enough for any of the good private schools I’ve toured and it is not enough to pay for a single high school in Richmond. I believe the cheapest private high school in town costs just over $10,000. Also as more students enter the voucher system, the amount given per student will lessen over time. So much for helping the poor. 2) Most private schools will not accept students with learning or mental disabilities. 3) Students must go through rigorous interviews, take tests, write essays, etc to gain entry into private schools. They won’t accept students with grades below B’s. 4) Private schools offer zero transportation.
It is not difficult to imagine what would really happen to public schools with a voucher system. Look I’m sending my oldest to private middle school -I could use the money big time and with vouchers I would send my youngest to a private montessori in a heart beat. I’m a parent fighting for a good education in the public schools, I’m the parent participating in fundraising activities and supporting the teachers by giving them gift cards and books, bringing tissues to class, going on field trips…I’m the type parent the public school would lose in a voucher system.
Instead of wasting energy to dismantle public education, why not dismantle bad policies like the NCLB that punishes poor schools? Change the standards of learning that have teachers and families fleeing the public schools. Get rid of slack inept leaders in the system.
West doesn’t know anything about the Family Foundation of Virginia? I went to their website and I got a very clear idea of what they are about—intolerance and hate. And the Catholics are no better. He should have checked out these organizations before aligning himself with them.
I’ve always thought the voucher program sounded great in theory, but broke down when trying to sort the details. I know it works in Europe especially because of the superior public transit, but parents can’t always drive across town to drop their kids off at school every morning. Hell, when I was young, if I missed the school bus in the morning—I didn’t go to school that day.
Wow, Keith West. you are yet again way off the mark.
Baffling.
(Disclaimer: I only went to public school from 1st through 3rd grade and have no real attachments to the institution in general.)
I’m a bit torn on this. Our public school system is broken, and broken pretty badly. I don’t see anyone around with the political skill to negotiate the necessary regional cooperation needed to really make any difference. A strong public school system is the best thing for the city, I’m just not hopeful it will get there in my lifetime.
So, following the logic that gray shared above what this is is a tuition break for those who already have their children in private schools and make private schools more affordable in general. The positive I see there is it may keep people(i’m thinking my friends, so middle class white folks mostly) with kids from moving out of the city as their kids approach school age. I’m a fan of that. I also think it opens a good door for smaller scale community schools like our own Church Hill Academy(run by CHAT). I’m also a fan of that.
So, I see how this offers no help to the poor and is no positive for the public schools. But baring someone leading the schools in the right direction I’m inclined to give school choice a try.
And on a side note… just because groups like the Family Foundation of Virginia support an idea doesn’t make it a bad idea. They support it for their own reasons, which are really just because it is in their own self interest(christian schools and homeschooling because cheaper). That doesn’t mean that there aren’t other valid reasons to support it(slowing the school age white flight).
read this:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3626/is_200504/ai_n14900813
@Jason — The article is 20 pages long, care to give a summary?
: :
Having public schools in which the entire community chooses to enroll their children is one of the marks of a healthy neighborhood. And while some choose to move or enroll out of zone, most parents ultimate choice would be to send their child to a good neighborhood school, right?
To get better public schools, work to improve the the public schools. Spending tax money to fund private schools will not improve public schools. We don’t have private parks to make the public parks better, private transportation has not done wonders for public transportation, and Barnes&Noble hasn’t done anything to improve the East End library.
“I went to their website and I got a very clear idea of what they are about—intolerance and hate. And the Catholics are no better.”
Wow. Where did that come from? I can see why you wouldn’t necessarily agree with their positions on some things, but intolerance and hate? I am completely gobsmacked that you’ve got the audacity to accuse me of intolerance and hate because of my religion. You want to take another crack at me because of the color of my skin?
And we wonder why some people don’t feel welcome here.
This is another example of how out of touch West is with the community he represents. Most of the families in this neighborhood cannot not afford private school whether or not “discount” is involved. Either their budgets are too tight to be able to afford tution (especially if multiple children are of school-age)or they do not have the transportation to attend schools not serviced by the RPS bus system.
Daniel, Check out the state contacts for School Choice Virginia http://www.heritage.org/research/Education/SchoolChoice/virginiaRD.cfm -a very hardcore group of ultra conservatives and christian extremists. Go to their home pages and see how they hate sex education, evolution, non christian beliefs, plan parenthood, etc. I’m a firm believer in separation of church and state. Not a cent of public money should go towards any religious organization.
The ultra conservatives are the ones that said Iraq has nukes and the Iraqis would greet us with flowers and dates after we drop bombs on them. It is the ultra conservative government that left the poor to fend for themselves in a stadium surrounded by water. Remember those images and events.
Centuries of entrenched local graft and corruption in the most corrupt jurisdiction in the first world left poor people to fend for themselves in a stadium surrounded by water.
neighbor, true but notice how an earthquake hits a third world country with back roads and no roads and our troops are there the next day helping folk out of rubble. In the U.S. we watched on TV people beg for drinking water for days before supplies and help were sent. Just because their local government was corrupt does not excuse the inaction of our federal government.
gray, I know fully well what ultra-conservative groups believe. I grew up in that environment. They want to be able to raise their kids as they see fit and I have no problem with that. They are paying taxes for education and they want a part of that back to pay for the education they have chosen to give to their children and I have no problem with that. I fully understand why they are involved and what their purposes are. They aren’t my reasons, but I understand them and can separate them from the issue of school choice.
What I’m trying to get at is what other reasons would there be to support school choice? I’m suspecting Keith West is supporting it in the hopes of putting political pressure on local politicians to fix the public schools. I think that is a valid reason for him to support it. I would lean towards supporting school choice because I’m tired of hearing friends plan to leave the city when their children get to be school age. The schools are not good enough to keep them here and private school is too expensive. If we were to ever have children(we have no plans to) I would prefer my child go to a montessori type school because I think that type of education creates better people. School choice would benefit me then as well, although, like I said, we have no plans to have children.
Daniel,
Here is a suggestion. Let’s fight to have a montessori program installed in our neighborhood school that way the middle classes and poor have an opportunity with a hands-on education. I also like the reggio emilia program at the elementary level. Keep in mind that both of these educational programs were developed to educate the inner city poor. Everyone needs to band together and demand innovative programs and say no to unqualified staff and to teaching to the multiple choice tests.
I’m all for it. I’d love to see that happen in the public schools. I’ll gladly help with a movement that would push for that.
Exactly! Work to improve what we have, to the benefit of the entire community.
Instead of arguing/poking at each other why don’t you folks channel your energy into positive things like working with the youth of our community and help tutor/educate kids. I know that CHAT, Central Montessori, Belleview and Chimbo School (and others – private, public or otherwise) all need/could use some mentors, tutors, volunteers and help. Get off discourse and into assisting the children and our neighborhoods.
See you at the next CHAT, Montessori or Belleview/Chimbro meeting/event for helping the schools/kids … right!?!
JJ
@JJ – Many of the folks commenting here are already involved to one degree or another. People are interested because they are involved&.
The discussion seems to be whether or not is a sound policy to use our tax-derived education dollars to fund private education, possibly at the expense of public education.
I personally would like to see the “middle-class” people work to improve the schools we have (and I know many commenters are in fact doing this) rather than constantly threatening to leave the city. This is a diverse city with many needs; no one group should be able to wield the power over others.
With leadership like this, change can just seem too hard – like rolling a boulder uphill. Not everyone is up for that fight.
Solution: change leadership, right? Unless this leadership actually represents… In which case, folks who respectfully excuse themselves for pastures that better reflect their viewpoint are doing the exact appropriate thing.
If this guy does not reflect your views, oust him. If ya don’t, you are building your own boulder.
politically avaricious twerp.
trust him at our peril!
Well, he isn’t running for a second term. Until we elect someone new, we are simply “leadership-less” for all intents and purposes. I hope the next rep we elect reflects the diverse needs of everyone in the community.
JJ, I’m a parent involved in our neighborhood school, Bellevue. John has posted our PTA meetings and agenda. We have another meeting in August and we’re looking to have the neighbors involved whether or not you have kids in RPS or at all. I’ll make sure John receives the information to blog.
Daniel, I like your spirit. Maybe we can arrange a neighborhood meet at Buzzy’s. Anyone else interested?
Too bad Murden can’t run for School Board. From what I have read and heard, he would be great!
http://www.ci.richmond.va.us/departments/budget/pdf/Demographics.pdf
http://www.ci.richmond.va.us/departments/budget/pdf/PieChartTotalExp.pdf
According to the demographics and the budget of Richmond, we are spending $6,737 per student per year.
The US average was $9,576 in 2006.
http://www.ochealthinfo.com/cscc/report/PDF/04_Educ/DollarExp94.pdf
Is there something missing from this? Are there additional funds outside the city budget that factor into that? Just to come up to the average would be an additional $68 million…
There are Federal dollars that come in for a number of thing (Exceptional Ed, Title 1, etc) that are probably not included in those numbers.
but nothing close to $68 million right?
no probably not 🙂
that’s gonna be one hell of a bake sale
gray said:
“I’m sending my oldest to private middle school ”
Ruth said:
“they are about—intolerance and hate. And the Catholics are no better.”
Sounds like gray has given up on the RPS despite all her comments to the contrary, and Ruth is going after all of us “Papists.”
And, Keith West is the problem?
Hillkid, I still have another kid in RPS. My oldest needs a small middle school. Hopefully, I will be able to send her to public high school.
hillkid –
As a fellow “Papist” I must say, Keith West is indeed part of the problem. And no personal choices that other parents make for their kids are at all relevent to his ineptitude – except maybe appropriate choices that one might make for his/her child in response to his ineptitude. Neither is some random anti-Catholic lady on a blog.
Keith did it all himself.
My children go to RPS, and I have VERY different ideas than Gray about the school system. But, I agree the KW is indeed part of the problem.
“I personally would like to see the “middle-class†people work to improve the schools we have (and I know many commenters are in fact doing this) rather than constantly threatening to leave the city. This is a diverse city with many needs; no one group should be able to wield the power over others.”
What group is wielding power over the other?
I guess what I was thinking that middle class whites tend to leave RPS either from fear (have read or heard bad things) or bad experiences or other reasons, and this group seems to hold the most political power over the school board (or at least our rep KW).
I hate to comment further because I fear I will be attacked, but here goes. I feel this one group, which comprises a minority of our RPS-attending families seems to have the loudest voice, often at the expense of the rest of the parents that attend RPS. Things like free after-school programs, out of zone bussing, and support for Richmond Parks and Rec programs are very important to the majority of the families that use RPS. These same programs don’t seem to have much value for the middle-class whites (who do not attend RPS anyway).
When KW only listens to the “middle class” group, the other programs suffer. Why, he supported the cutting of the busses and now he’s supporting a program that will further decimate (sp?) our neighborhood schools. Why? Because the fact is, he never really supported RPS to begin with.
The school system is not perfect, but nor is it the horror show that many have painted it to be. I continually encourage the community to recognize the positives and build upon the successes of our schools, rather than tear them completely apart.
Destroying all faith in RPS does not affect the white middle class so much, because they will simply go elsewhere. But, those of us who have no other choice are left in the ruins.
God forbid that people should take their children from a poor educational environment to one that offers a superior learning environment.
I say ban private schools and “Papist’s” and why not “middle class whites” as well?
Tiny:
I think your logic is flawed:
If the “white middle class” wields the greatest power over the school board then why are they leaving RPS? Obviously thier concerns and expectations have not been met and can go elsewhere.
The alienated “middle class” that leaves (all all races mind you I doubt we whites have a monopoly on private schools) have pretty simple requirements.
Provide my child a safe, good school. That’s it. High test scores, high graduation rates, safe nuturing environment that is all.
In the years that I have been paying attention, the school board would rather argue amongst themselves and the city government trying to place blame at someone elses feet.
Shut up, fix it and this discussion would be moot.
Mike you asked, “What group is wielding power over the other?”
I would say it depends on the school your children attend. At Fox and Munford, the middle class and above wield the power and from my experience at Cary, the baptists. At Bellevue there are about seven white students who probably are of the lower middle classes so I can safely say the school is not under the rule of the white middle class.
All schools are under the rule and the authority of the Superintendent. Check out Henrico County’s list of qualifications and duties the superintendent must perform http://webapps.henrico.k12.va.us/policy/chapter.asp . This also applies to the RPS super and for years, she has been a black woman of the upper middle classes.
Regarding busing: I would like to know from a School Board member or Super why they chose to eliminate out-of-zone busing. Maybe they thought it would encourage folk to use their zoned schools. Of course, we know that didn’t work. Like the uniform idea, it is merely a bandaid. Bring all schools up to the level of Holton with it’s high rate of teacher retention, computer and science labs, working up to date website, extremely low suspension rate, smiles on teacher’s faces, etc.
I did not say the schools were under the rule of the white middle class; I said that KW seemed to only care about this group’s concerns. I also believe this group is afraid of sending their children to RPS and I feel that many of these fear are not based in reality.
Oh boy, am I going to be attacked, now!
BTW, I considered myself middle class, but I do not have the funds to send my children to private school. However, I did send my oldest to private school, which I had to really work hard to keep with the tution. Once I finally gave RPS a chance, I realized that all that extra money was not worth it. I am so pleased with my children’s school and it offers so much more than the private school we used to attend (St. Patrick’s).
tiny, my sister attended St. Patrick’s and I agree that certain public schools are better than the inexpensive private ones. If you’re not paying atleast 7 to 9 thousand a year for tuition, chances are your kid would be better off in public school (and the 7 to 9 is the starting rate. Tuition goes up with grade levels).
It is flawed to state that people in a certain tax bracket automatically agree. I am quite sure that many differences could be found between my priorities and those folks who earn about the same income that I do – and more differences among the group as a whole.
Why does the bahavior of one foolish guy that was placed in some junior leadership position make us all want to put ourselves in stereotypical boxes?
Don’t pigeonhole yourself! And don’t let anyone else do it to you, either. It’s mind-numbing.
“Papists�
Is that code for ass-fucking little boys?
Wow, Ruth! Have another cocktail!
After all, it is already 1:30 in the afternoon.
Tiny,
Are you beth? because only one white family at Bellevue has a daughter and son. Maybe you’re beth’s husband.
And edg are you the parent of the white son and daughter too? or the parent of the two white boys?
Not to worry Shannon, Ruth seems to be an equal opportunity offender. She hates everyone.
i would like to say that white people have no monopoly on middle class flight from RPS. In a school system that is 80% at or below poverty at think it is safe to say that the entire middle class has left the building. i also believe that 50 new families together at any school could change the culture at the school. This idea that white and black people want different things from schools only exists because we refuse to talk about what we want. I’ve had children in private, Henrico and Richmond public school systems. in every instance i to give up something; time, money or belief.Yes, The Cary situation shows us how difficult change can be; especially when people refuse to be honest regarding motives. Everyone claims to want a socially, culturally and economically diverse school system but how we create that from what we have now and what that really means is something that we really have not talked about.
Thanks Art, I totally agree. In the United State we have been blessed with the opportunity to receive an excellent education free, but whether or not we rose to the occasion is what is of importance. Not everyone in this world is fortunate enough to have the chance to learn new and exciting things in an atmosphere that allows for it to happen. We must develop an atmosphere that allows our youth to embrace every bit of knowledge that we feed them, because their education is the one thing in this world that can not be taken away from them. Our schools must help our youth to develop a constant curiosity and desire to learn everything that they can.
Art Burton, We will have diversity in the system when there are no longer the haves and the have not schools. No one with means wants to send their children to the have not schools. I have literally witnessed schools with staff smiling and ones with everyone frowning.
I know RPS employees, teachers, child psychologists, principals who decided to move to the counties or chose out-of-zone or private schools. We even have a School Board member and School Board candidates opting out of their zoned schools. What does this say about urban public education?
On the bright side, I believe our neighborhood school only needs 12 dedicated parents to get the ball rolling.
The discussion on this thread has been about school vouchers that has been given the label “tax credits.” We know where SB member West stands and Bert Berlin has been courageous in giving his answer while running for political office/SB…it would be nice to know where all the other School Board candidates and members stand on the issue of vouchers. Do we have any takers?
Yes gray i totally agree. As you know no one has fought the fight harder than myself. I don’t think that you can have the expectation of the middle class coming to schools that are simply run down and out of date. it would seem to be common sense to me that building new schools would be the approach we would take if we truly wanted new families in RPS. Fulton School is the classic example of the lie that is being told that we want new families and middle class families in public education. the demographics support building the school,. the community supports building the school, they want a public school, the money is there but………..what i see more and more is that a lot of people make money on screwed up poor black children, millions of dollars and they don’t want the gravy train to end. As long as middle class people are content then hey no harm, no foul. One of my fears around the charter school issue was that it would open up the box to a charter school movement or school choice movement and we are at that moment. The fact that inequality issue in RPS have moved beyond being a discussion about just poor black children being had by black people gives me hope that we will have an educational reform movement in this city that doesn’t require that we throw in the towel on public education and neighborhood schools. the only West idea i have really liked was the changing leadership one. However, the problems with some of our children are great. I woke up this morning wondering could we really fix this. My son was jumped and beat by seven kids last night. The kids are violent and angry and its hard to know who to save. i was at a forum while he was being beat down in the streets. Wouldn’t it be tragic that while i was out trying to save thousands i lose my own. Like i said my daughter was in private school, then governors School. she walks around with this sense of entitlement and does not really seem to have a high tolerance for a lot of black people, my child, imagine that. smart as hell though, my grandmother would say she has a smart mouth.(smile) i say that to say that you give up something anyway you go. My dad says that government has the responsibility for children, widows and fools. I think someone misread the quote and put all the fools in government. I can’t really turn back now though so, I still believe that we can fix the business of public education and bring families back in.I don’t think its a quick fix and may be the final chapter written about our lives. However having been on the front line for quite some time i do understand how you can get to the place that Keith is in. Scary world when Torey and I agree on something.
Art, I have to confess I totally agree with you again. Except about the scary world part. I agree with you more than you realize.
This is a game that Art Burton and Torey is playing. They know each other very well. Don’t fall for this trick. It’s a trick. Torey go stick your head in the sand. Art if all the fools are in the government, why do you always run for an office in the government.
Where the white kids. they don’t attend the middle or high schools in this district. Maybe the white parents send thier children out of the disrict like Torey Edmonds. Too get a better education, she say.
Don’t want you Torey, you will be another KW and RM. Bad Blood
Dear rlksk, i found out tht Torey thought that I was my Uncle in Churchill.
she didn’t know that she was talking to the highland park Art. As for the fools comment, that was my idea of funny. You seem to know me well enough to know it was me. I’m running because I would like to prove that real change can be made and I think i have a unique skill set that can help make the change. also the political stage is the great stage of ideas. it is the place for you to stand and say what you believe; maybe change a heart or mind. As much as you think Torey and I know each other very well; this is the first time we have shared anything about our lives. We have always been on different sides. That’s the Richmond thing ; i see you and form an opinion. I know from experience that out of the 15 minutes i talk to the press the public only gets 30 seconds and its always the most inflammatory thing i say. Really isn’t that the purpose of the blog-as opposed to the cheap shots and vemon. Trickery is not a part of my game. I consider myself one of the best community organizers in the city and a pretty fair activist and have no problem giving it to you straight.
Hey Art, the points you make are very legitimate. Just because I assumed you were your uncle, does not change the fact that I absolutely agree with most of what you are saying. I am very glad to have gotten a chance to read it. Thanks for posting. I’m sorry to hear about your son. I hope he’s okay
It’s interesting how the arguments for preserving government run schools are the same arguments for government run religion- community churches (schools) make neighborhoods stronger, community churches (schools) create shared values, if we allow other churches (schools) our community church (school) will suffer.
Far fetched? The church at 24th and Broad was built with tax dollars, and, just as with schools, attendance was compulsory. Government run churches have been around much longer than government run schools and you’ll still find them in such backwards places as Britain.
Strangely enough, government affiliation hasn’t strengthened religion. You’ll find a much stronger religious community in this country where you have a choice of religion. What was once unthinkable is now much preferred.
Could the same be true of education?
What is the goal? It’s to prepare children for our future. Are the public schools doing a good job? The numbers and general dissatisfaction would indicate not.
Why don’t we just fix the schools? We have been trying to do precisely that for about 100 years. Follow the discussion from the early 1900’s and you will find it eeirly similar to the debates taking place today. How long are we going to give this?
Then the other thing. Who needs education the most? The children not getting it at home? At one time the hope was that education would serve as a leveler. The hope may still be there, but it is not realized. Educational outcomes closely track parental income/social status. Are smart children born only to wealthy parents? Of course not.
Personally, I don’t care who runs the schools that taxpayers fund. I just want them to work. I see no hope of the educational bureaucracy pulling that off. I’m ready for something different.
Bert Berlin has a great response to this: http://jamesrivermaven.blogspot.com/2008/08/please-sir-can-i-have-some-morevouchers.html
Here’s an interesting op-ed by George Will (should I duck now?) about the American Indian Public Charter School:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082002947.html
The Berlin thing was cute, glib. He forgot to note that FedEx, DHL, UPS have greatly improved on postal delivery system.
Reachem:
When I had custom-designed jewelry made a few years back, the jeweler told me that they never use anyone but the U.S. Postal Service to send the really expensive stuff – too many packages get lost through FedEx et al. If you look at the sheer volume of their business, I’m not sure that the USPS deserves the bad rap it gets.
…as she thinks about the panicked two hours she spent trying to track down the five-hundred dollar air cleaner that was misdelivered by UPS, and probably only got back because she was obsessively refreshing the tracking page and knew it wasn’t where it was supposed to be within minutes. It wasn’t pretty.
Jennifer C:
True. I stand corrected. Actually, I sit corrected. One thing that the US Postal Service and public schools have in common is the “universality” of their delivery. By that, I mean that no matter what — rain, sleet, snow etc..– the postal service must delivery.
Similarly, no matter what, public schools must take whoever shows up and figure out how to deliver an education. I grow weary of hearing excuses as to why our public schools are not better and I confess to wondering how we will ever get them to be what they must be if we are to survive as a city.
*deliver
While I will not try to change your opinion of RPS, I too get weary, but I am tired of the broad attacks on the school without recognizing the progress that has been made.
I am so weary of the attitude that if anyone says anything that is even remotely recognizing that there are deficiencies in the school system, they are attacked for not recognizing that progress has been made.
Of course, progress has been made. EVERY school district has made progress.
There is a difference between “constructive criticism” and “destructive criticism.”
I like RPS. But, I am not blind and I can see that there are some areas that need serious improvement.
In a sense, attacking me — or anyone else — because I (or anyone else) can see there is room for improvement is a bit like John McCain attacking Barack Obama’s patriotism because Obama dares to have the audacity to hope that we can get over ourselves and make a better world.
For heaven’s sake, I am not attacking you! Everytime I have a different opinion, I am accused of attacking. I respect your opinion, but I believe that RPS has been viciously and unfairly attacked. I should be able to express that point of view.
Sure, but you need to appreciate the difference between “constructive” and “destructive” criticism.
Just because someone says something even mildly critical doesn’t not mean that they have been living under a rock somewhere and are unaware of the progress.
You have yet to acknowledge that anyone who has expressed an opinion different than yours just might have some validity to the viewpoint. It one one thing to “say” you respect someone else’s opinion, but when you emply words like “viciously” and “unfairly” you impugn your own credibility by going to an ad hominem attack instead of sticking to the facts.
I am sorry, but I disagree with you. I do believe it has been viciously and unfairly attacked, but maybe not by you personally.
Ever since 1954 and the aftermath of Brown vs. Board of Education, RPS has been viciously and unfairly attacked. We, however, are not “special” in that regard.
There are inner city school systems across this nation that can say the same thing and which have found solutions to problems that we, as of yet, don’t want to openly discuss, much less attempt to solve.
But, I believe that the people today who offer the criticism(s)are not doing so in a manner reminiscent of those bygone days.
I believe Gray, Reachem, John M, Tiny etc. etc. all want the same thing — an equitable system that focuses on excellence. RPS has many wonderful teachers who do great work everyday.
To be sure, we are not without significant challenges.
How we meet those challenges will determine the strength of our characters and the substance of the future for both our city and our children.
I would love it if when someone offers a criticism that they also offer a possible solution. Perhaps this would help those who feel the need to “defend” an opportunity to understand that the dialogue should not be about who can attack or defend, but who has the best ideas on how to make it BETTER FOR ALL. IMHO.
Here’s for the weary:
1970 RPS integrates
2008 RPS has de facto segregation
Now everyone should be happy with that kind of . . . progress?
Nemo me impune lacessit.
After he went blind, my friend and mentor Oliver W. Hill let me be one of his “readers.” Several times we read Richard Kluger’s 798-page Simple Justice, a history of Brown vs. Board of Education.
When he asked me to read the book a third or fourth time, I asked, “Why?”
“Because we are not finished yet,” he said. “We’ve barely begun.” “And,” he added, “do not ever engage in a discussion of the re-segregation of Richmond’s schools they’ve never been de-segregated.”
Mr. Hill often noted that while the unanimous decision in Brown opened the front door of the schoolhouse for blacks, the 5-4 decision in Milliken — which made cross-jurisdictional busing very difficult — opened the back door for white flight.
Justice Thurgood Marshall’s dissent noted that poor Negro children would continue to receive “the same inherently unequal education in the future as they have been unconstitutionally afforded in the past.” “In the short run,” wrote Marshall, “it may seem to be the easier course to allow our great metropolitan areas to be divided up each into cities — one white, the other black — but it is a course, I predict, our people will ultimately regret.”
Notwithstanding his always cordial demeanor with Lewis Powell, the swing vote in Milliken, Mr. Hill observed that Powell did nothing to integrate Richmond’s schools. When Powell stepped down as Richmond’s School Board chairman in 1961, “precisely two black children” attended the city’s public school with white students.
Richmond still suffers the effects of Milliken. The schools are not integrated, and more African-American males go to prison than to college. Despite real progress, we still have a shameful graduation rate, an abysmal dropout rate, and sky-rocketing suspension rates. We also have near total non-compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, thus denying “simple access” to our most vulnerable citizens.
Where do we go from here?
Before enacting NCLB sanctions and dismantling public education, we should revisit Milliken and consider what our nation might be like today had that decision gone the other way. Let us find a way to recapture that missed opportunity for equality.
We can begin by re-reading Simple Justice. As Mr. Hill said: “We are not finished yet. We’ve barely begun.”
*************
Mrs. Wolf,
You seem to be contradicting yourself. Please clarify. On one hand you seem to be saying that busing has added to white flight and on the other you encourage a parent to fight for her right to open enrollment.
I don’t get it…
P.S. I have seen photos of when white and black students went to the same school in reasonable proportion based on the population, so it’s not really accurate to say they were never integrated.
Res ispa loquitur.
I encourage all parents to ask questions and fight for what is best for their children. I encourage all and support all.
As much as I love photography, I do not rely upon it as a sole source of information. I have seen the numbers [from 1954 to present] and I have had the privilege of personally knowing Mr. Hill, attorney Samuel Tucker, U.S. District Court Judge Robert R. Merhige, Jr., Governor Linwood Holton, Senator Henry Marsh as well as hundreds upon hundreds of other courageous individuals, in the City of Richmond and elsewhere, who have fought for the Civil Rights of all children. These individuals are from every race, economic and educational strata in our society and they all agree — our schools have never been desegregated.
These learned and dedicated souls would not have endured all that they have if it were not necessary.
teacher,
I looked up the meaning of what you wrote at the end of your post: “Nemo me impune lacessit.”
ne·mo me im·pu·ne la·ces·sit
Etymology: Latin
: no one attacks me with impunity — motto of Scotland and of the Order of the Thistle.
NO ONE has attacked you.
I’d like to refer everyone back to the article Laura posted as a model for success.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082002947.html
As a newcomer to Richmond, I can say that it sure seems that nobody in the town cares about answers. They just want to make sure no one else is getting something different from themselves. We have a great opportunity to see if a charter school will work in Richmond, but people fight against it because of the POSSIBILITY it won’t be fair or equitable… OH and it could, possibly, maybe, not work.
We have answers available all over the country of public/private/charter schools that work and work well. It only takes a few things 1)Hold the kids accountable – the kids have to WANT to be there. Many of the kids today don’t because they are bored and unchallenged. Again I refer you to the article. 2)Hold the parents accountable – you want the schools to be better?! Put in your own time. 3) Hold the teachers, principals, and admins accountable – teachers shouldn’t be teaching to the test. Principals should be allowed to fire teachers but shouldn’t have unlimited power. Tenure=communism.
In the Will op-ed, I especially liked the passage where he points out one of the problems with our current learning environment:
“self-esteem is a prerequisite for accomplishment, not a consequence thereof.”
This is a little off subject, but I would like to ask the question of why do all kids need to feel special or gifted? What’s wrong with being average? Telling kids that they can be anything they want to be is a big lie. I get why people tell kids that, but there seems to be too much Hollywood in modern education these days.
Seems like many schools now give out awards for ALL kids, and all kids are catalogued as being “special” at something. Why?
The article that Ry and I have referenced also talks about how the AIPCS is “cool on parental involvement.” Sometimes meddling parents who think junior is the second coming can be really crippling in terms of a school’s ability to do it’s job.
Laura, Ry and All,
I read the Will article and would like to have a reasoned dialogue about it.
Perhaps, Laura, we could begin by determining exactly what your definition of a school’s job is?
Reachem:
I’ll answer your question when you answer mine. I asked first. Not trying to sound glib, but I think I’ve asked some reasonable questions.
No problem.
1.) “I would like to ask the question of why do all kids need to feel special or gifted?”
I happen to believe all kids are special and I think there is an intrinsic need in everyone to believe they are special enough to be of value to someone. As in, “God don’t make no junk.”
2.)”What’s wrong with being average?”
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with being average. Even so, I believe that as human beings, we come with a wide range of capabilities. I have seen enough of this world to know that if we look long enough at any one child (or adult) we can find something within that child (or adult) that is extraordinary, average and lousy.
I think that what you are trying to get at here is really why do we FALSELY praise and hand out awards for every sort of thing — whether it is true or not. I am against that all the way. Kids have great B.S. detectors and they quickly learn the score.
I wish we could give our teachers the time to see “the whole child,” as opposed to the child that must take the test that will make or break the school’s AYP or SOL scores.
Did I answer all your questions?
Reachem:
Just saw your comments. O.K., here’s the answer to your question:
http://hub.mspnet.org/index.cfm/9151
Says it better than I could.
Laura,
Thanks for posting the link. EXCELLENT answer! I hope everyone reads it.
In many respects, the article could be describing two of RPS’ crown jewels — Richmond Community High School and Open High School.
Now, if only we could find the community support and political will to replicate and expand these choices into our middle, elementary and other high schools. Thank you for the inspiration, Laura and thank you Reachem for insisting on a civil dialogue.
I’d sure like to know the cost per pupil for Open and Community. With only about 200 students each, it’s hard to believe these schools are affordable.
It’s also interesting to note these schools have a 14 and 22% student body of white students where the other high schools have less than 1%.
Here’s to RPS crown jewels… with a 250 million a year budget RPS is doing a great job for 400 students.
“…it’s hard to believe these schools are affordable.”
I think this is a primary factor in why the American school system is broken. Whereas I do not think we need to spend exorbitant amounts to have outstanding schools; I do not think that the cost of the schools should not be of the highest priority.
So, Why does everyone think those two schools are successful?
Because the parents are involved in their kids’ education.
Both are schools that are allowed through an application process to select which students attend. They are front-loaded to succeed by beginning with students that have already proven themselves to be successful.
Community is specifically for students with an “above average ability”. Open draws students that are “self-directed, independent learners”. Stock any school any where with these children, the parents that got them there, and good teachers and you should have a successful school.
What do we need to do to make sure EVERY school offers ALL children the opportunity to be successful?
I “hear” what you are saying, John, about how highly motivated students and parents plus good teachers constitute the basic formula for a successful school.
But, what is it that we need to do to make the system work for the rest of the kids?
How about starting with cleaning the schools?
Environment has a lot to do with the way people feel about themselves and their level of motivation is right behind that. The school I work at and many I have been to are absolutely filthy.
Why not provide supplies?
For the entirety of my career in RPS I have been refused basic requirements of the classroom such as copy and construction paper, text supplements, classroom sets of books, overhead projector, and the list goes on…
How about a public alternative school or two?
The only alternative school for students CCP is private and does not do enough to help students who attend. Not necessarily because of the school itself, but because the students who are sent there can’t function in a regular school.
Wouldn’t it be great if every school only had about 200 students?
The fact is that there is no lack of money. There is a lack of priority. Research is conflicting as to whether a better educated society equals a better society fiscally speaking. Personally, I believe that a better education is never harmful or wasteful.
People get lost on the small problems…
Have you seen Mosby, Fairfield Court, etc? These are some awful environments to expect much healthy growth. I drove by Fairfield Court the other day and I thought …. damn …. and I have seen some pretty awful ghettos around the nation.
Teachers can not be the parents, psychologists, friends, etc. etc. all the time for every child. It is too much to ask. We’re not gods, we’re humans. In Richmond, we often do it with little support and the people driving the system may not always be the most qualified.
You want better schools? Then start by improving the people who attend them.
How do we make society work is the real question. The system is working as well as it can given what is installed.
Re: ‘ALL children’
We need to stop trying to make schools everything for everyone. We need to have specialized schools. Schools with advanced programs for advanced students. Schools with intensive programs for struggling students.
Some say high schools should do a better job bridging the gap to the future. If students are destined for college- say around 9-10 grade, we need to be pushing them with high level and AP classes. For students that are struggling and don’t expect to enroll in a 4 year program we should spend the time teaching them technical skills and preparing them for associate degree programs. And accepting that that is OK.
We need to stop assuming if we put a group of kids in the same environment they will progress equally.
Re: “ALL children”
Allow me to clarify. Given that “ALL children” are different and come with varying abilities and interests, it strains comprehension and credulity to think that my statement meant “if we put a group of kids in the same environment they will progress equally.”
What I do want to emphasize is that we can not afford to throw any kid away because they do not fit into our preconceived notions of what makes a kid successful.
What I do want to emphasize — IS THAT WE AGREE — we can not afford to throw any kid away because they do not fit into our preconceived notions of what makes a kid successful.
I would like to note that these past few comments represent the most respectful discussion so far on the schools. I am enjoying the commentary and the points you all are making.
It is this type of discourse that will move us closer to a solution!
Here’s another example of an individual trying to make a difference in the lives of local RPS students:
Our good friend, local novelist David Robbins has started a new non-profit. From his website
http://davidlrobbins.com
“…my new non-profit passion is something called the Podium Foundation. With the Richmond Commonwealth’s Attorney’s Office, I’m going to start a literary magazine for the five area high schools. These kids are creative, intelligent, caring, and frankly, misunderstood in my city. I want to help give them a voice, to introduce themselves as they really are, stingingly smart and capable. The magazine will be called Podium. The tagline is: Where Kids Take A Stand. If you live in Richmond, Va., and want to help, please contact me. Also, to be honest, things like this cost money (printing, teacher stipends, computers, etc.), so if you’re inclined to donate, also let me know.”
Laura,
Great article in your post #84 -RPS should move in the direction of offering a choice of traditional or progressive educations at all grade levels. I know that a traditional education doesn’t work for everyone and the same goes for a progressive one.
I’ll also check out the David Robbins link.
After school starts, I’ll be giving you a call about some drama at Bellevue.