RECENT COMMENTS
Petition urges changes in 28th Street project
There is a Laura Daab-authored petition circulating outlining a number of specific complaints about the the proposal for 504-510 North 28th Street. The developers of the project will be hosting a Forum of Discussion this Wednesday at 5:30PM at 1901 West Cary where further information will be presented and questions will be answered.
The text of the petition includes the following complaints:
1. The use of 15 ft. side yards: Article 4 in the Siting section of the guidelines states: New infill structures should be spaced within 20% of the average distance between existing houses on the block.
The average distance between houses on the 500 block of North 28th St. is 7ft. 2in. The 15 foot side yards constitute a 110% difference. The side yards for this project in it’s current form should be between 5 ft. 9in. and 8ft. 8in.
2. The height of the revised project is 33ft. 1in. Article 1. States: New construction should respect the typical height of surrounding houses.
The house next door is 24ft 6in. tall. That is an increase of 35%. The staff report states that the average height of the surrounding houses is 24 feet. This new structure will dwarf the houses next door. The height should be reduced to compliment the average height of the surrounding structures.
3. The side porches on this project protrude 3 feet from the main structure. Under New Construction, Form, #1 states: New construction should use a building form compatible with that found elsewhere on the block. Building form refers to the massing, size, symmetry, proportions, projections and roof shapes that lend identity to a structure.
The protruding side porches are a design element that is not found anywhere in the surrounding area and thus would be incompatible with forms found elsewhere on the block.
4. The garage door, as seen in the drawings, is a suburban-style overhead door. This door style is incompatible in that there are no such garage doors like this that exist in the surrounding area.
The following is in response to the petition in opposition to the proposed infill at 504 – 510 N. 28th Street and provides the applicant a public forum to reply to the petition:
This project is a by-right project in the City of Richmond and requires only a design review by the Commission of Architectural Review. A great deal of thought and analysis went into the design process for this project. The property is four existing single family lots, two of which are land locked and have no access to parking or alley services. Because of the configuration of the site, four single family homes are not feasible within the parameters of the existing zoning ordinance. The option of building a pair of attached homes was also explored but using the required setbacks and the allowable widths permitted in the ordinance resulted in inadequate units. As a result of this site analysis, it was determined that a small multi-family building, the size of a pair of attached single family homes, could meet the limitations of the site. The design team then studied architectural styles, size, scale, massing and materials found in the surrounding area and determined that, because of the nature of the site, a traditional design derived directly from the architecture of the block, was the appropriate solution.
The numbered items below are quoted directly from the petition and the responses follow:
1. The use of 15 ft. side yards: Article 4 in the Siting section of the guidelines states: New infill structures should be spaced within 20% of the average distance between existing houses on the block.
The average distance between houses on the 500 block of North 28th St. is 7ft. 2in. The 15 foot side yards constitute a 110% difference. The side yards for this project in it’s current form should be between 5 ft. 9in. and 8ft. 8in.
The side yards are governed by section 114-418.5 of Chapter 32, Zoning, of the Code of Ordinances of the City of Richmond, Virginia requires a minimum side yard of 15’.
2. The height of the revised project is 33ft. 1in. Article 1. States: New construction should respect the typical height of surrounding houses. The house next door is 24ft 6in. tall. That is an increase of 35%. The staff report states that the average height of the surrounding houses is 24 feet. This new structure will dwarf the houses next door. The height should be reduced to compliment the average height of the surrounding structures.
The guidelines state that new construction should respect the height of the surrounding houses. One of the unique features found in the immediate block and across the street is a variation in roof forms and heights. The proposed design is in keeping with the existing rhythm of high gables next to lower shed roofs and is approximately 6’2” below the height permitted in the zoning code and lower than the majority of the contributing structures across the street and several buildings on abutting lots or across the alley at the rear. Further, the height of the adjacent building was respected by aligning the new front fascia (edge of the roof at the gutter) with the adjacent cornice.
3. The side porches on this project protrude 3 feet from the main structure. Under New Construction, Form, #1 states: New construction should use a building form compatible with that found elsewhere on the block. Building form refers to the massing, size, symmetry, proportions, projections and roof shapes that lend identity to a structure.
The building form is a derivative primarily taken from 515 -517 N. 28th Street and 501 N. 28th Street, each of those buildings being greater than 40 feet in width. The Guidelines state that buildings more than 30 feet in width should be divided into bays. This was accomplished with the same type of window patterns as 501 N. 28th Street where the façade is divided into a three bay width with front porch and a two bay width with front porch, a direct correlation to 501 N. 28th Street.
4. The protruding side porches are a design element that is not found anywhere in the surrounding area and thus would be incompatible with forms found elsewhere on the block.
The vernacular or language of the porches is derived from typical porches in the area and side porches are prevalent in Church Hill North and in the broader Church Hill community. They can be found in original and altered states throughout the district as well as on this block and across the street. The formula or concept of the recess is stylized from the now in-filled porch pattern of the adjacent house, 502 N. 28th Street.
The porches also respond to item #2 under the heading of form in the guidelines which states, “New construction should not mimic previous architectural styles is such a way that creates a false historical appearance.” These porches are an integral amenity that enhances the quality of life for the residents of this building. The guidelines are not intended prohibit such forms, but rather to provide a guide that these items be handled in a sensitive manner. By having the porches on the secondary elevations and maintaining a direct design reference to traditional side porches, this design is one of the few revealing elements of this building that reflects that the architecture is of time and place. Additionally, the porches were seen as the only approach permitted within the zoning ordinance to reduce the required side yards at each side of the building.
5. The garage door, as seen in the drawings, is a suburban-style overhead door. This door style is incompatible in that there are no such garage doors like this that exist in the surrounding area.
There are multiples of approved garages in the district with this type of garage doors. The zoning ordinance requires parking on site and providing the parking in the garage reduces the impact of the rear parking area to three cars. Access to this garage is at the end of a dead end alley.
Joshua, It’s great that you want to invest in Church Hill. Folks really do want to see new infill happen on the vacant lots. However,
1. Did you know that if you just wait a couple months till the R8 Zoning is in place for this block, that you’ll be able to build 2 duplexes (two 2-family homes,) side by side, with only 3ft side set backs? The R8 code will be much easier to work with in terms of minimal setbacks.
To build two duplexes, all you’ll need in R8 is an extra 100sq ft on the smaller of the two combined lots and that can be achieved with a simple Lot Line Adjustment down at City Hall.
Everyone I know in Church Hill/Union Hill and City Hall views R53 is an outdated, impractical zoning code that is no longer relevant to the CH North community and the direction it is headed.
Why should you expect the community to support a project which is tied to an out-dated zoning code?
The Church Hill community AND City Planners have been working together for the past 3 years to develop a zoning code that benefits the neighborhood and reflects the desires of the community. R53 just doesn’t cut it anymore.
Have you considered waiting till R8 happens? Then, build two dwellings, make them 2 family homes (duplexes) and make everyone happy?
2. Building height: are the extra feet needed because the building will accommodate 5 dwelling units? The structure as it’s now designed is for 5 apartments, right?
Wouldn’t a good compromise be 4 dwelling units created by 2 duplexes (2-family) structures?
They’ll be easier to rent and would be more desirable for the neighborhood and your long term investment in property improvement.
3. Alley access. A parking overlay will go into effect with R8 and will make it easier for you to meet the parking requirements for your tenants.
Non-existent or limited alley access for the southern lot is fairly common in Church Hill North. Most of us don’t have alley access behind our homes, and we get along fine.
Please consider working with the neighbors and perhaps wait to build when the block is rezoned in early 2010. It’ll be easier on everyone.
@2 – There is no guarantee that the City’s “schedule” of rezoning will follow the time table you describe or happen at all. This builder has a right to build now. It is extremely unreasonable to ask him to wait an unknown amount of time.
You pretty much have a model “developer” here in that he is willing to engage with you. This is a small businessman, not Centex Homes. Any impartial observer is going to find his responses reasonable.
That was a good comment. Where is Churchill headed? And who decides? Where is your business headed and who decides?
If you’re talking about outdated and shabby…..streets that look like a war zone. You’ve got it. If you want people to invest in the neighborhood (and don’t think there’s all that much money to be made) then you have to welcome them and not demand the same old boring poorly constructed homes. But then Richmond has never been a town that rejects new ideas in favor of mediocrity…have we?
@ Emily: “If you’re talking about outdated and shabby…..streets that look like a war zone. You’ve got it.” Where do you live, Emily?
“same old boring poorly constructed homes.” My home was built in 1855 and has stood fast ever since. It has joists like railroad ties. There’s your poor construction. I found a Civil War relic while digging a garden in the back yard. And there’s your ennui…
It is obvious to me that the response to our petition was written by your architects, Josh. Just so everyone knows, the architectural firm who consulted with and designed this project is owned by the Chair of the Commission of Architectural Review.
It is shameful to think that the firm owned by the Chair of a commission that the city has entrusted to protect our Old & Historic Districts is so blatantly ignoring the legally binding and equally weighted OHD zoning overlay in favor of R-53. The argument presented above in response to our petition is filled with untruths and is misusing the system that was put in place to protect our neighborhood.
I have the staff report from the project at 516 N. 28th Street that directly contradicts the staff report for 504-510 N. 28th Street, and supports our argument that 504-510 does not meet the standards for the OHD zoning overlay.
Please note in the findings under “Siting” :
#4 talks about the side yards requirements, and how 516 meets the standard by closely approximating the pattern of development on the opposite side of the block. No such scrutiny was addressed in the 504-510 report.
Under “Form” #1 Building form should match compatible forms on the block. The findings for 516 state that it meets the guidelines for height, but that the second floor front porch and other elements did not meet the guidelines in that they are not found on the majority of the nearby historic buildings. No such scrutiny was addressed for 504-510 report.
Under Height, Width, Proportions, and Massing: #1-4 all the the guidelines are met for 516 based on the fact that all the houses on the 500 block are 24’ and so is 516. Same number of floors (2) for 516 and all other houses on the block. The massing was found to be inconsistent in that the 2nd story front porch is not a typical pattern within the historic district. 504-510’s side porches can be characterized the same as 516’s 2nd story front porch, but it is not scrutinized like 516 was.
Why is the project at 504-510 getting a pass on all of these guideline requirements, when 516 was scrutinized very carefully?
The findings in the staff reports for 516 and 504-510 are so inconsistent that it is disturbing.
It makes one think that because Dave Johannas is the Chair of the CAR and his firm is the designer for 504-510, he was given an easy pass and the project was not held to the same scrutiny as an infill project on the same block that sought it’s COA at the same time.
Even when using the qualifying words “ makes one think” it’s dangerous to make statements accusing a person or group of bias or collusion without proof. No matter what one thinks is the truth, once stated in a public forum, it’s only human nature that the accused will indeed be tempted to bias against the accuser. Sabotaging ones self and agenda.
The insinuation of collusion at the end of your comments weakens the overall strength of your argument. It “makes one think” that you don’t believe that your points can hold up without an attack on the motives of the others involved.
Just build. Really we have history on the hill now we just need to fill in the lots with homes with people in them. We need the shops other wise people have to drive to get everything. People will just want to live in the county if they have to drive to get to the shops. I understand traditional construction but has anyone priced railroad ties lately. To be a community we need people willing to live there. let the people build we will keep the tradition in the building still standing and keep the pressure on the vacant home owners.
#8. Excellent point …. wish I had make it myself!
If you read this thread together with the comments about vacant/blighted properties, you begin to get an undertanding why many people don’t want to build in the city, especially if the goal is middle income housing. There is no way a moderate income family can take one of tese properties and rehab it if they are in and O & H District.
“The insinuation of collusion at the end of your comments weakens the overall strength of your argument,”
IMHO, I disagree. The same thing is going on with Echo Harbor, but with different players.
Viciousness and slander is recognized for what it is, and hopefully the fine people of Church Hill won’t put up with it.
david – don’t scare people off. This is just one lady with some kind of burr up her a–. Rehab and CAR are not that hard, it’s the neighbors that make it difficult.
The hoops she wants this guy to jump through certainly do make it hard to be affordable, but I think she is opposed to ‘affordable’. I read elitist, ‘not-in-my-back-yard’ attitude all through her various posts. Look at the pictures of this proposal – It looks just like an old house down the street and the roofs and heights in this neighborhood are all over the place. The proposed would fit in beautifully. Come on LD, get behind this proposal, wouldn’t it be nice to have some new neighbors?
RE #11 – “There is no way a moderate income family can take one of tese properties and rehab it if they are in and O & H District.”
I beg to differ. There are lots of ways, actually. I do think that one of the problems is that people don’t educate themselves enough on what it means to “rehab” a property – what it entails from an architectural, mechanical, and aesthetic standpoint. There is a lot more involved than paint.
I think that people tend to have this impression that restoration is romantic and fun, which it can be if you know what you’re doing. But more than that, it’s super hard work with lots of obstacles and mega-management involved. These are huge operations, and/but there is financing there for them and money to be made with all of the great deals out there. Awesome pricing, and quality/condition on the front end is key. There are some gov’t incentives, too.
Folks interested just need to do the research and the math to ensure that what they are buying is a good investment. It can be complicated, but it’s not that hard, one bite at a time. Make sure that you surround yourself with experienced professionals, and you will probably be fine – that is if you decide to listen and take suggestions from those people who know what they are doing.
I’ve never seen a show teach it on HGTV, though, and I always caution buyers that sitting on their couch taking in some entertainment for a few half hours a week will not qualify them.
Shannon, my point was that taking the old property, in an O & H District, and renovating it to historically accurate standards not only takes a huge commitment of time and energy and knowledge; it also takes a commitment of a greater amount of money. The same applies to a poor current resident. Winter comes the windows leak air. They can call window world, get thermopane windows that are energy efficient and low maintenance for about $250/window. But they are not permitted, so the choises are the rebuild/historically accurate replacements, sell the house or put up with the inefficiency. Those are bad choices for poor working people.
#16 – They can be repaired fairly easily, a good do-it-yourself project OR you can do storm windows for less than $200 – and YES, they are allowed in an O&HD.
There are alternatives. Magnetite inner window frame insulation, for example, can make old window frames more energy-efficient and yet still cost less.
RE #16 – I understand your perspective, and it is, unfortunately, kind of a common one. But as we see from the comments that follow yours, sometimes it just takes a little digging to get beyond the impressions that O&H are there to bleed the homeowner dry and force people out of their homes. It’s not that simple, and there are alternatives.
As a Certified Historic REALTOR who works with old homes all the time, I have seen some absolutely insane bastardizing of once-gorgeous homes. Part of me has secretly wished, just for a sec, that O&H would extend their guidelines to interiors, too. I am all for less regulation of pretty much everything, so it was only fleeting. But still, the way that these places are disrespected during the “renovation” process is off the hook sometimes – makes you wanna cry.
I am glad that there are folks out there that are in the solution of more affordable preservation because affordability and preservation are both important aspects of any old house restoration – whether someone is forcing you to do the right thing Historically or not.
The resources are available. ACORN and OHA are good places to start.
If historic renovation is so expensive, why is Better Housing Coalition able to do such wonderful rehabs and new construction, all of which fits in wonderfully, and then offer their properties for such affordable prices, complete with grants?!
How about, BHC knows what they are doing, and they have an appreciation for historic properties, unlike a few developers who shall remain unnamed by me?
I agree with Laura Dabb, it makes me wonder, too, why a project by a member of CAR isn’t getting the same scrutiny as other projects. Plus, there are some really horrible infill houses up here that not only detract from properties on their blocks but simply scream ‘I’m newly built (or re-done, not rehabbed or renovated) by someone who just wants to make money and has no clue about historic properties.’
To the poster who said we need shops – why don’t you invest in a commercial property on 25th Street, and bring something commercial and useful in, instead of criticizing people who appreciate historic properties? That way, you are doing what you say you believe in. I say 25th Street because at some point in the past few years, it was supposed to be developed as a commecial corridor for the entire area.
CRD – Why shouldn’t someone “wants to make money”?! What an odd statement! Is it now morally corrupt to want to make money!
We still live in a country which allows people the freedom to do what they want within the law/code. Granted – those rights are slowly diminishing but as of now those developers may still excersise poor taste.
CRD,
“…why is Better Housing Coalition able to do such wonderful rehabs and new construction?”
BHC is a major recipient of CDBG grants to underwrite their programs. That’s not a criticism of them, because they do a great job for the city and its residents, but your comparision is not apples to apples.
It seems like some folks are using this as an opportunity to unfairly “poke” at Laura Daab. Let’s not confuse the issue…CAR should be made to adhere to the guidelines as written. Laura has simply pointed out the conflicts in the proposal…and, she has some very valid points. It seems like the developer has taken liberties in determining what is currently represented in the neighborhood. The architectural cues should be taken from the block that this proposed building is going to exist in. The setback, the scale, and design will look out of place on the block.
It’s OK for a developer to want to make money…It’s also OK for folks to demand CAR adhere to the standards as written… If folks have issues with the inconsistencies with CAR’s decision-making process, perhaps this is where the problem exists?
RE #6 & 20
Why do you say this project got less scrutiny – from what I hear it didn’t get approved by CAR, I don’t call that less scrutiny.
This developer has already demonstrated he can build great stuff in other Richmond neighborhoods. I believe he can, and hopefully will, do the same in Church Hill.
However, I encourage him to work with the surrounding neighbors to develop the 4 lots in a way that is harmonious to the existing homes on the block.
This kind of public vetting or “working thru the project” with neighbors is routine for developers who want to build in desireable neighborhoods.
This public vetting process has and never will drive away future developers who are serious about investing in Church Hill, Shockoe Valley, or Union Hill.
New infill projects get approved all the time (with little or no fanfare.)
Take for example, the new house at 418 N 24th Street (a small builder; they broke ground this summer and are almost finished–open house on Sunday.)
Another is the new mixed-use project (very dense with 4 stories) that will fill the 2000 block of Broad Street. It’s received a green lights from CAR and Zoning, and consturction should be underway soon.
There are many, many new infill projects (in O&HD’s) that we don’t hear about because things just go a little smoother in the public vetting process.
To have the occasional hiccup on a new project every once in a while is no big deal. It’ll get worked out, and new construction will take place on 28th Street.
For the record, I do wish the developer would re-draw the project to avoid the 15-foot side yards (which run the full length of the lot from the street to the rear property line).
One of the biggest things that defines this community is the density of the structures. This is the urban core, not the suburbs of Hanover. This is a neighborhood of adjoining or very closely side-by-side houses.
To help prevent these kind of setback discrepencies with new construction, the community has spent countless hours working with city planners to develop the R8 zoning for much of North Church Hill. The same team who worked on R63 in Union Hill is spearheading the R8; they moved it thru the Planning Commission and City Council pretty efficiently, and I believe it when they say it should be in place by the end of 1Q10.
Very simply, the siting of the N. 28th Street infil is simply out of sync with near-term R8 and the O&HD.
The “developer” would have to apply for a variance (that they are not guaranteed to receive even with neighbor support) on the side yard issue in order to accomodate the neighbors’ concern. It’s a significant extra cost for such a small-scale project and it’s unreasonable for the neighbors to demand that they submit to variance review on such a small issue.
Josh, best of luck with your project. It sounds great! I have seen your other developed properties around Richmond, and they are singularly hands down the best.
Ms. Dabb contends there are no garage doors like the ones in the proposed project. The majority of doors need updating. That is because the doors are outdated and are manual. It is a simple issue. The city should require all residences to have modern garage doors, and eventually all modern style homes.
@26…no variance needed if the developer waits till R8 is in place and builds 2 side by side duplexes for a total of 4 units. A free lot line adjustment will get him the extra 100sq ft on the combo of the smaller 2 lots.