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More words for Buffington’s
05/13/2011 5:31 AM by John M
Jon and Leah Nelson review Buffington’s for richmond.com:
While dining at Buffington and Wine’s, we were most disappointed in the wasted potential of an inviting spot in a vibrant neighborhood in need of more dining options. Given an interesting and tasty menu from a talented chef, this space could be a gem in the making. Unfortunately, the limited menu and poor execution at Buffington and Wine’s leaves Church Hill still longing for better dining options.
Ouch. Some of this I’d disagree with but I have heard most of it before from friends and wife who have tried. I personally like the taste of their pie but it’s not the greatest. If it weren’t on the hill, I wouldn’t make a trip for it.
Hopefully Victor and Buzzy can make the necessary adjustments and pull this business up.
Tried the twinkie. My recommendation? Don’t.
Harsh, but very true.
Yep, harsh, but very true. 🙁
I have not been in because I have a friend who tried it and said he had a horrible experience. He called ahead to be sure they were open, arrived ten minutes later to a surly server who acted like he could care less if they got any patrons; no welcome hello or thanks for visiting. Pie was not particularly good, and over priced for what it was. My friend’s comment was, ‘if they want patrons, why don’t they act welcoming?’ That sort of turned me off, I can find better places to spend my money.
Alex #1, I’ve heard also that if it weren’t convenient, people wouldn’t bother going.
Agree with #1-4 above. I hope they can make some changes and keep things afloat. I think we were all willing to let stuff slide when they were first opening up, but things should have improved by now!
In the interest of offering some constructive criticism for a place I’d really like to see succeed, I’ve been thinking about how Buffington’s could actually make a viable business model. My personal opinion is that they have a few pretty big gaps right now:
1. Pizza and hot dogs are not foods that most of us can eat everyday (at least after we leave college). This means you need either a big audience to draw from, be differentially good enough that folks will drive from further (expand your base) or need to have something else to offer.
2. Their space is limited and they probably can’t support a massive amount of inventory, thus limiting their menu offerings
3. They have limited dining space so they need something that can turn quickly
4. Pizza market is well saturated with very good incumbents
5. As far as I can tell, there is not a chef here so it needs to be relatively simple.
So I’d suggest that they look for something that they can serve quickly, people will eat often, can be offered to go to ease the load on the dining room and is not currently offered on the Hill (and preferably in the Bottom either). If I were to offer my suggestions to them, this is what I’d propose:
1. Drop the pizza. It takes too long to make and there is too much competition. You can’t get great margins on it without switching to fresh made dough and I don’t know that they have the prep space to do that.
2. Add sandwiches to the menu. Fresh sliced deli meat from a premium supplier like Boar’s Head would be easy to serve. You can keep the pizza ovens working to toast the sandwiches. Sandwiches are higher margin, can be sold more often, make great to go items and you can make a lot of offerings with just a few ingredients.
3. Add salads to the menu. Similar to above – easy to make, everybody loves and eats often and can be made with a lot of the same ingredients. Mix in some prepared stuff like pasta salad to give depth and fill out the menu without adding labor costs.
4. Go local. See if you can find a way to make your place stand out from Subway and other sandwich joints by highlighting local suppliers. Start a partnership with Tricycle Gardens to get your greens from them. Have veggie sandwich options that highlight in season local produce. Find a local bread supplier for sandwiches. This will help justify a higher price point.
5. Have a visible relaunch. Many folks know this place now and a lot of what they know is not that great. Get the word out about the changes and make sure you are ready to go on day 1. Offer discounts for the first week or so to get folks to try the new menu.
6.Keep it fresh. Have a special offering or two each week that gets people checking to see what’s new. This works really well with the local supplier route.
7. Enlist the help of a food industry veteran . You don’t need a chef but have a contact or two in the industry who can help highlight new trends that you can use.
I’m hopeful that with some changes (maybe not these but something), we can keep a viable business in that location. Hopefully this review will be a wake up call and the business can turn it around.
We’ve eaten there twice, and I have loved the service and the pizza sauce (Jon and Leah must not have particularly refined palates if they couldn’t taste anything in the red sauce – it’s wonderful!). But I can’t be eatin’ that stuff more than a couple times a year! Too much cheese, too much oil, too much fried twinkie.
Alex offers some excellent analysis of their quandary, as well as some excellent suggestions. I want to particularly highlight nos. 3. and 4. I think Church Hill is DYING for a fun salad place. I mean big honkin’ salads that come with baked pizza dough wedges on the side. Salads with creative names like their pizzas, and inventive salad dressings to make them fancy. Salads that I would order ahead so I could pick ’em up on the way home. And the connection to Tricycle Gardens is almost a no-brainer. We’ve now got quite a decent urban green movement going on up here and a partnership the movement and the local restaurants would be a benefit to all.
Okay, said my piece. If you’re reading this, Buffington’s, I really want y’all to succeed!
Alex #7,
You nailed it with your suggestions–I totally agree with all seven. If Buffington’s doesn’t do a complete and radical turnaround, I can’t imagine it being around for much longer. Awesome advice, and I hope they implement at least a few of your ideas…
What Alex said. Good people, I’d like to see them succeed too.
They definitely have a passion for the business, a great location, and a community that WANTS them to succeed, so they’ve got that going for them.
However, I think they are focusing a little too much on what they want to serve, and not thinking enough about what the customers want to buy. This strategy might work for a little while, but as the novelty factor wears off, they will need to rely more on repeat business. To get repeat business, they need to think more from the customer’s perspective instead of just “What is the most fun food for us to make?”
Alternatively, if they have their hearts set on the artery-clogging grease-orgy theme for their restaurant, perhaps a different neighborhood would be a better fit. I am thinking somewhere right around VCU, where there is an endless supply of hungry teenagers who haven’t yet had to deal with the side effects of having a finite metabolism or come to the sad realization that grease=heartburn.
For a neighorhood like Church Hill, that is mostly a more health-conscious adult demographic, the concept of Buffington’s is kind of self-limiting, since it can only be an OCCASIONAL treat. (Assuming that one finds it to be a treat.)
Personally, I think adding salads to the menu would be a great improvement, and I wish them all the best!
A few other points to add to my (probably already too long) earlier post:
1. Pizza is polarizing and so you automatically cut out a lot of your potential market. Probably more so than any other popular food, people differ on what makes a good pizza.
2. As I mentioned earlier, it’s not quick to make either. This means you need to charge more to cover your labor. Since it’s labor intensive, it’s also subject to a lot more variation in quality. I’ve noticed that when Victor is in and making the pie, it is noticeably better. He may know that his pie is decent but may not realize that his employees aren’t as good at making it. He can fight it or he can realize it’s tough to train for.
3. In addition to the other suggestions from earlier, I’d really encourage Victor to partner with the community. The sheer volume of posts on these threads relating to their business show that the community cares a lot about having a new food place that they can patronize.
A lot of the comments mention that they want him to succeed. Why not use that to his advantage? Have an open house and invite the community to come in and help give suggestions. Have testing nights where you get folks to try potential new items.
There’s no shame in getting outside feedback. No one person will have all the answers. You can make money and respect that or you can ignore it and fight an uphill battle. We as a community want more restaurants we can adopt as our own, support and see them thrive. None of us win if this place fails. I’d gladly give a list of possible recipes that I’d love to see and/or time to help and I suspect others would do the same.
This place has a lot going for it – a great location, in a great community that cares and a very likeable owner with energy. It just needs some refinement.
I agree with everything that’s been said, but mostly with Mr and Mrs Alex. 😉 You both have perfect vision and perspective.
I’ve talked to the owner several times, both before and after he opened the space and he seems pretty intent on serving “Bottom’s Up pizza with lower prices” but I haven’t experienced that. I’ve ordered three times from them, and there was a problem every time and the price is always high. I wish he could think less about what he wants to serve and more about what people want (as previously stated by Mrs Alex, #11).
I’m vegetarian, so I run out of options quickly; I ‘d love a place to go and sit and enjoy a meal with a varied menu. (I’m pretty excited about The Roosevelt coming soon). I hope Buffington and Wine read this and are open-minded enough to rethink their strategy. My fingers remain crossed!
I haven’t even had the food and I’ll never go back. I went by to talk to Victor about an event there and he was completely rude and inappropriate. All he wanted to know was “what’s in it for me?”. I don’t know, BUSINESS maybe. I asked for his number when I left. He said, “I’m very busy, and don’t have time to answer the phone, especially for people I don’t know, so leave a message.” That was all I needed to hear.
Also, this place has been open for 3 months and they keep saying they are “soft” opening and we haven’t been advertising and we are still getting it together. How about don’t open up a business half a$$.
When Roosevelt, the new burger joint in the fire station and hopefully the new bakery/coffee shop across from Roosevelt open, the competition will probably doom them both. What kind of restaurant (buzzy’s) has a menu with no prices and it only says prices are subject to change? Does no one else find that ridiculous?
I really want these guys to make it work. That building needed to be finished and occupied; it makes the neighborhood so much better now that it is.
That said, I have to agree with Alex’s comments. I’m not a hot dog person, but I know City Dogs draws lots of them. With a competitor like that nearby, you have to differentiate yourself even more. There are plenty of pizza places around too, most with very loyal followers. Sure you can convert a few to order out of convenience but that’s not the way to build a customer base for the long term. I’m afraid there may not be easy answers, but focusing on what the neighborhood needs and what will draw people in from elsewhere is the best place to start.
I’d love to like this place also but I just can’t. I’ve purchased pizza from them on two separate occassions and both time i’d have been happier with DaVinci’s. It’s like they’re not even trying.
On the other hand, OMG Cafe is much more to my liking. Better good with a much larger menu, and the folks there are very nice.
It’s obvious that Buzzy’s and Buffington’s exist solely to make money. The food isn’t particularly good at either location, and the service is lackluster as well. The majority of Buzzy’s items are NOT baked “in house” or are even made locally for that matter (this has been confirmed by employees)
Frankly, I think they survive solely because people like the idea of a quiet place not far from home where they can go sit on a laptop and steal wi-fi while they get some work done and sip on overpriced coffee.
Buffington’s completely astounds me….with so many wonderful places to get pizza with a few miles, why would anyone go to the equivalent of a bowling alley snack bar?
There is a big difference between constructive criticism and destructive criticism. RVADrew, you just tipped the scales with your asinine post.
Sorry @18…but, RVADrew is not wrong. Most folks, from any blog, web-site, or message board across the city, that have been to this place, agree…the food is not good…at all. I’m sorry that the criticism hurts but, it’s all part of the game once you jump into the ring. Much of this criticism may be constructive…it may cause the owners to reevaluate and make a change…listen to the customers. Otherwise, the place will be out of business before you know it.
Well said rvadrew. I would love to support these guys because they’re in my neighborhood but that’s not enough. Good food and friendly service goes along way with me. Both of these establishment are seriously lacking in that regard. My advice is to think about some quality control but I doubt my opinion matters to these owners.
I’ve only eaten there once, and not terribly impressed. The best part of the experience was the warm friendly service. I had a piece of pizza and onion rings. The pizza was so-so. the sauce was FANTASTIC however the crust tasted like a poor quality frozen pizza, didn’t taste fresh at all, sorta reminded me of elementary school, haha. The onion rings were ok, the way they wrapped them they were completely soggy by the time I got home (which was only about a 5 minute drive. Honestly probably will not return unless the expand the menu.
chpnfan #18,
RVADrew’s post tipped the scales? I guess that’s a subjective judgement, because I read his post twice and have to say I agree with every word of it. And I’m guessing that at least 80% of the folks lurking around this thread agree also…
My wife and I will not step foot into Buffington’s until he creates a menu that appeals to health-conscious folks older than 14. If we’re in a low-carb mood, we can get salads from Sette, Patrick Henry, Bottoms up. And if we want to indulge and pig out, there’s Alamo of course(and the three places I just mentioned). Soon, Church Hill will be graced by the presence of the owner of Ipanema and Garnetts.
(And I need to mention Poe’s Pub, whose food has been seriously good lately)
With these (and other places in the Bottom I haven’t even mentioned) in mind, does anyone seriously think that Buffington’s, with its current menu, will become a “go-to” place on the Hill?
The review description of the pizza almost matches my comments about Bottoms Up. Buff’s wants to match Bottoms Up, and that is their biggest mistake. Bottoms Up is awful. If you want to copy a decent pizza place, there are so many better options in RVA.
I have only had the White Pizza at Buff’s, and I did like it. However, I really don’t feel like having that type of food more than once a month. I am glad they got their ABC Off license. Now, if they had some more food options, the business would probably take off.
#17 chpn fan- The only thing that’s “asinine” are the owners trying to peddle concession stand food with resale products from Sam’s Club at inflated markups. Most adults have a discriminating enough palate to tell the difference between freshly prepared food and stuff from the freezer aisle. Frankly, I’m amazed that with Bottom’s Up, Sette, Aziza’s and The Pizza Place within a mile or so, that anyone takes Buffington’s seriously.
Sorry, but just because you invest in a Fry Daddy and a countertop Impinger pizza oven doesn’t mean you’re a legitimate restauranteur.
Would be a great location for a sushi restaurant.
Drew, you are not the only person on the Hill that isn’t into Buzzy’s. I have NEVER had good service bc they are all so far up their own ass they cant just be nice for the sake of being nice, and their “baked” goods are awful. I get more smiles at the Starbucks in the Market, and that is an amazing thing.
Buffington’s is gross and overpriced. I agree that a salad place would be great. Richmond needs a place like Chop’t – they should look into that business model and run with it. http://www.choptsalad.com/
I tried the pizza at Buffington’s and it was awful and pricey. They use pre-made crusts that taste like cardboard. If the crust is not made fresh, don’t bother. The sauce was very acidic too.
And hot dogs are the easiest thing in the world to make at home and store-bought ones taste as good as any other. It would be good maybe if it was quick food while walking around but why would I buy one at a restaurant?
The place needs major change to survive. I think the people have spoken and I hope the owner listens.
Alamo had problems with some of their side items when they opened, but they must of listened to people because the food got so much better. Buffington’s needs to do the same.
I think if they are trying to get by without doing a full kitchen, a good deli/sandwich shop with toasted subs would be better. If I could get Mrs. Marshall’s potato salad in the East End, I would be there all the time.
Also, Captain Buzzy’s coffee is good but very inconsistent. The turnover there seems high so many times people don’t know how to make the drinks. Or I watch them make drinks and they don’t bother measuring ingredients. I don’t go there for food.
Let’s hope that with Alamo, the Cafe, possibly OMG, and the arrival of the Roosevelt, amateur hour is coming to a close for the Hill’s restaurant scene. Buffington’s partial kitchen business model is strikingly similar to Que Pasa’s, and I have a feeling it’s fate will be the same too.
I had dinner at OMG Saturday evening and it was great! The food was delicious and the service was super. Had a lovely time and the staff there are so warm and friendly. If you haven’t eaten there yet please do so ASAP! It’s quite a treat. Looking forward to returning very soon!
My wife and I have had nothing but positive experiences at Buffington’s! We order a pie probably once a week and the service has been nothing short of exceptional. The staff has been friendly every single time we’ve been in there. And the pizza is delicious. We love it and will continue to support a local business that has been a great addition to the neighborhood.
Kevin,
Good point on Poe’s. I think Poe’s improvement offers several lessons for Buffington’s if they want to try to turn the ship around.
1. Get someone with culinary background in if you want to run a restaurant. A lot of the improvement at Poe’s is due to them bringing Steve on. He’s worked in Millie’s and a couple other legit restaurants and knows how to keep good product flying out of the kitchen. A restaurant needs a system and it takes way to long to learn on the fly. You wouldn’t start a car repair business without a mechanic or a medical practice without a doctor, but for some reason folks seems to think that anyone can start a restaurant. Cooking one or two items at home ok is a lot different than doing it in a production environment. If your system can’t support the speed needed to turn a high volume, you are doomed.
2. Vary your menu a bit. Poe’s has a nice base menu that seems to be changing by the season now and they’ve supplemented this with some nice daily specials to give it a bit more variety.
3. Make your profit through volume rather than per unit cost. Poe’s is VERY reasonable cost for what they offer. A good entree for $12-15 and sandwiches for about half that is what the market will bear. Buffington’s might make more total profit if they could sell their pies at a $10 price point. It’s a bad cycle though – charge too much and you get low volumes. Low volumes mean you need to recoup the cost with higher margin per item. That in turn drives volumes lower still. I’m also not sure that Buffington’s can keep up with a high demand business because their product is too labor intensive.
Just some housekeeping, then to the nitty gritty of this post:
There were a couple of posts above that referenced the inconsistence of Buzzy’s in regards to service, coffee and menu pricing. To those who wrote that, I salute you, because you are correct on all counts. I’ve worked on and off in different restaurants, managing two, for more than five years and there’s nothing worse in my opinion than dealing with fly by night owners and employees who simply do not care to be knowledgeable about their product or their public. It’s a rarity I go to Buzzy’s because quite frankly, it’s not that good. I’d rather drive out of my way and go to Rostov’s because I know Tammy’s got it right. And to the poster who wrote the baristas at the Market are nicer than the employees at Buzzy’s, yes, you’re right. They ABSOLUTELY are.
I’ve eaten once, albeit carry out, from Pies, Fries and Franks. The pizza is reminiscent of Bottoms Up, and I find Bottoms Up pizza disgusting on too many levels. I don’t know much about the service except for what I’ve heard, not just here in the posts but around the neighborhood. They’ve got one guy up there who started working recently in sort of a managerial capacity who seems to have a good head on his shoulders and apparently has some restaurant experience. And then there’s the twenty somethings who run around with their self importance, sometimes overcompensating for the poor quality of the food or would prefer to read a book rather than check in with the patrons.
What’s sad is that this place is in an exceptional location and that the current owners are ruining it. The Pizza Place in the Bottom is better than their pizza. At least it’s a product that works. In addition to that, City Dogs certainly has a corner on the hot dog “market” in Richmond. Go have one and tell me I’m wrong. Anyone can run a deep fryer. And for that matter, call me crazy, but when I heard the name of the restaurant in question for the first time, I thought for sure that it wasn’t just going to be pizza pies; I thought you could get other pies there too, such as key lime, chocolate or pecan.
So, Bob Buffington and Victor Wine, I have a question for you: When are you going to wise up, accept that your joint venture sucks and replace it with something that Church Hill can be proud of?
After reading the previous comments, who in their right mind would want to open a restaurant/business in CH??
I’m sure Bob and Victor appreciate input but some of the comments I’ve read are just plain rude.
#31 Alex, I’ve experienced the fantastic changes in the food at Poe’s and agree with your post re Buffington’s. (The Sunday brunch at Poe’s is outstanding, too.) It’s taken awhile for some of the changes to be noticed outside the regular crowd there, so I was glad to see you post about it here on this blog.
I might add that the new chef at Poe’s, Steve, had experience (as you note) at Millie’s and prior to that at The Trellis in Wiliamsburg, and after Millie’s he was at Lulu’s. All of those are outstanding establishments. The pizza joint would do well to take note and find someone with similar experience – but first they have to pay attention to what their customers want, starting with decent service and a change of menu. Thus far I see no sign of that. Maybe someone will point out this thread to them?
#34- Hiring people with extensive culinary experience requires money. It appears that Victor and Bob are doing things “on the cheap”. I see nothing about the menu or the interior that says QUALITY. Heck, they didn’t even have chairs for the first few weeks. Make no mistake about it. These people aren’t here to provide Church Hill with another Poe’s, Hill Cafe or Millie’s….They’re essentially running a corner food cart trying to make a quick buck.
#33- The readers of this blog DESPERATELY want their new business to succeed, however, NO ONE likes being lied to and mislead. Anyone who’s eaten at that place can attest…the food is awful and there is absolutely NO WAY that the ingredients are fresh and handmade. There’s no way. Convenience food is fine….just don’t charge premium prices for it.
I have not been to Buffington’s yet, and probably won’t be going. The menu is fairly incompatible with how we choose to eat, although I admit I am already biased against it because of the Buzzy’s connection (not a Buzzy’s fan).
However, they have a situation that doesn’t allow for that many options. They have ABC-off that was grandfathered in, but were not allowed to get ABC -on. They sell pizza and stuff to go, and you can get a bottle of wine to go at the same time.
At the moment, that’s what will work there.
I don’t know what kind of dining establishment could really develop and prosper without an ABC-on license, unless it was lunch only. Say what you will, but you cannot serve dinner and expect customers without being able to serve alcohol (I can’t think of a single place in this town that serves dinner that does not serve at least beer or wine). That doesn’t mean that everyone who goes to eat at a place will be drinking alcohol, but in the restaurant business (a business in which I have worked for over 20 years) you simply cannot make a profit on food sales alone. Period.
If I were to go out to dinner, it would be very less likely for me to go somewhere where I could not have a glass of wine with my meal. So, that sets pretty tough limitations on and kind of “restaurant” model that are possible for the site.
I think the location is awesome, and they could probably do very well with a gourmet market/wine shop. Something like the Strawberry Street Market.
Wait, how did they not get ABC ON? I thought they applied for both!
I’ve had the pizza there and it’s the epitomy of bowling alley pizza. I had the Paul Bunyon with ‘Italian Sausage’ and it was actually Polish sausage from Hillshire Farms. Also, the Kalamata Olives are your run of the mill black olives. I don’t see an oven or stove anywhere so I don’t know how they can make a fresh marinara sauce or anything for that matter that they can claim as their own. Everything comes from Sam’s Club so if you like the pizza then you can make it yourself at home without the high mark up. The owners don’t seem to have a grasp of what the community wants, just what they think will bring the highest profit margins. Also, they have a Guiness steamed hot dog on the menu yet they don’t sell Guiness. Where’s the Guiness and the steamer???????
I also find it amusing that neither Bob or Victor have cared to enter a single entry into this thread. Apparently, it’s either their way or the highway. If they have a chance of succeeding, they might want to respond in some way shape, or form.
@39 – I’m not sure I really expect a response on the blogs. It would be even better if they respond in the form of changes. Although I suppose it might be a good idea if they go that route to let folks who already wrote them off to give them another try…
A lot of the posts on here are pretty hard to respond to as doing so would require a major “mea culpa” if they acknowledge them. If they don’t acknowledge they get it and ignore those complaints, why bother posting.
If they make changes on their own, they are able to save some face when they post later.
As small business owner myself, I would like to make a few suggestions to the anonymous posters on this thread:
How about actually calling up the owners, or better yet, go in their establishment, introduce yourself and have the friggin’ integrity to talk to them about their products. Face to face is always better. With the advent of Yelp and other similar sites, consumers have forgotten how to be good customers.
Running a business is not for sissies, however, mom and pops struggle everyday to make a go of it – usually under a lot of stress, long hours, and minimal support (financially and emotionally).
Would you want someone to post negative anonymous comments about something that you are working your ass off for, and put all your resources into? Especially neighbors? Did it occur to any of you that these are our neighbors who have invested their entire livelihoods into our community, and one of them has a family member with a serious health problem that popped up right before they opened?
You want them to succeed? Bullshit. How about treating them with some respect? How about walking into their place and sitting down with them to talk?
Small businesses are what make our communities strong. Stop comparing them to things that they cannot and will not be. Support them. When was the last time any of you ran a business? Try to have some empathy and respect for these people. The economy is killing the small business owner in just about every sector, and because it is really hard to compete with big box businesses (costs, marketing, labor, inventory, overhead).
Think about that when you all go to work for someone else tomorrow.
If I owned a restaurant that was well-received and respected in my community, I would welcome feedback and opinions on sites like Yelp and CHPN. But I can understand why the Buffington’s of the world are less enthusiastic. Having word get around at internet speed that your product sucks is a bitch.
Read the whole damn thread. Many of us don’t want to bother talking to the owners because: 1) There’s a suspicion that the owners don’t give a rat’s ass about what their neighbors think, and 2) Many of us are underwhelmed by Captain Buzzy’s and so infer that Buffington’s won’t/can’t be any better.
I’ve never owned a business, but I also don’t live in a fantasy world where skeptical non-customers walk into a business and say to the owners “Hey friend, got a minute? I’d like to talk about the quality of your product. Let’s share ideas and make your business work for all of us!”
Please. Get friggin’ real.
Well-said, Laura Daab!!
Yes, well said Laura. Owning any type of business is hard. There’s the actual business/service side you are doing, then there’s the business side: rent, employees, taxes, regs, more taxes, suppliers, vendors, more taxes…..
I’ve had three pizzas there over 3 weeks. Two Paul Bunyons and one cheese pizza. The Bunyons were excellent. The cheese, well it was cheese. It was much better the second day when I added some toppings and baked it again.
Thanks for clearing that up laura. I didn’t know he started the place to better the community. I figured he was trying to make a buck by overcharging for low quality food. Perhaps its just me to think this but wouldn’t you think the owner should be the one out asking what he can do to make his customers happy. Or better yet actually listen to those given instead of whining. Then again not everyone is boss material.
I think we can all agree a business is only going to be as good as you make it. Nobody is promised success. Not even a neighbor. Would you pay your neighbor 150 dollars to cut your lawn everyweek just cause he’s your neighbor and invested his last dollar on a mower.
Sam Cash and Kevin:
Typical responses from snarky chpn’ers. Really sad. Go back to the invisible, shadow lives of your 4 by 4 cubicle and continue to rant irresponsibly about things that you will never know how to do or be good at:)
I second that JD. Thanks Laura.
You haven’t a clue have you ms daab. Sorry for saying the truth. Much better than your heart tugging for your friend at the expense of your neighbors. I
applaud your dramatics though.
Laura, why should we take the trouble to go give Victor feedback? Shouldn’t a good business owner be actively looking for ways to make their business better? This forum is the members of the community giving him a blueprint for what it would take to earn our business. Many companies actually big big bucks to hear that. To suggest that we need to go out of our way to deliver it in whatever medium that owner wants is laughable. If a small business owner (or any business) wants to keep their head in the sand and continue pressing on with what they want to do, not what the customer wants, screw them. Someone who is in business to work for their customers and not the other way around will take their place.
That said, I have actually given Victor a few of these suggestions in person when he first opened. He was pretty sure he had it all figured out and even though I gave them in the nicest way possible and wasted 10 minutes of my time to do so, they fell on deaf ears. I’m not wasting any more time. Victor has passion and is a nice guy so I’d like to see it work but he’s in over his head. Zero restaurant experience and this is his first go round running his own business. It sounded like he would rather fail using his ideas than look for help. I don’t claim to have all the answers either but if he gets others to help, he’ll be a lot better off.
One more thing – I wanted to resist but I couldn’t. Your last line about working for someone else is exactly the mentality that dooms a lot of small business owners or at least keeps them SMALL business owners. A lot of folks figure if they get their own business they can have a free pass from taking shit from others. I guess you can but why should I shop there? I’d love to see small businesses succeed but as hard I have to work for someone else, any business that wants my money will have to show me that it cares.
Go on ahead and run a business the way you want and don’t answer to anyone. That may be why it’s so hard to make the bottom line work out. Maybe take your head out of the sand and stop waiting for customers to come to you and it might be easier.
Laura #46,
Maybe you could meet my wife and I at OMG and we can talk about how awesome Church Hill is. But you have to promise to not bring up Buffington’s, because I want to focus on all the positive things going on in the neighborhood…
I smell a rat, Laura. Care to make a disclosure?
Though I don’t like the road that Buffington & Wine’s has taken, I do want to see a succesful business in this spot. Victor is a nice guy and I hope that they take note of these posts. Unfortunately this thread has brought out a bunch of bad things about Captain Buzzy’s as well. I hope Buzzy’s takes note as well and puts some effort into food and service moving forward.
I wish all cubicle dwellers a wonderful friday. Unlike some I feel your life has more meaning than what you choose to do for a living. Although I work for myself by myself we are all equals in day to day life, and none deserve to be belittled for earning a buck legit.
Yesterday’s RTD review:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/entertainment/food-dining/2011/may/19/tdweek03-dining-out-pies-fries-and-franks-ar-1048661/
sam cash (if that’s your real name), Kevin and Alex:
I have no connections to Buffington’s except that I know the owners from the neighborhood,and I have patronized the place a few times. I won’t weigh in on whether they will make it or not. The market will decide.
As for your responses: Why do you have such contempt for the small business owner? You’re rude, nasty remarks are not constructive. Why do you think that small businesses don’t give a shit about their customers? Why would you think that Bob and Victor don’t? Seriously, you guys have got some major issues that go way beyond this thread. Look at all the negative energy you have put into posting here.
•Some of you have accused Bob and Victor of purposefully lying and cheating their customers!
•Kevin, you said “Many of us don’t want to bother talking to the owners because: 1) There’s a suspicion that the owners don’t give a rat’s ass about what their neighbors think, and 2) Many of us are underwhelmed by Captain Buzzy’s and so infer that Buffington’s won’t/can’t be any better.” Suspicion and inference are keeping you from talking to them? Whoa!
•Alex, you seem like an intelligent guy, but your making a lot of assumptions about Victor and Bob. You said “A lot of folks figure if they get their own business they can have a free pass from taking shit from others. I guess you can but why should I shop there? I’d love to see small businesses succeed but as hard I have to work for someone else, any business that wants my money will have to show me that it cares.” That’s a really unfair, blanketed statement about small business owners. You sound like a frustrated employee of someone else who loves to blog expertise about running a small business – that’s really sad, dude.
•sam cash, I’m not even going to bother.
Laura,
My comments were directed at you, and small business owners with attitudes like yours, not a blanket statement. I know plenty of small business owners who are running their own business because they have a problem listening to what someone else wants (customers included) and want nothing better than not having to “work for someone else.” I also know plenty of small businesses that realize that big or small, every business works for the customer and should care what they think. If you aren’t working for someone else, I’m not sure I want to try your business since you should be working for me (as a customer).
Those in the latter group I really want to succeed. I make a point to go to them instead of a larger chain. I refer them to my friends. I give them suggestions and tell them when they f— up in hopes they fix it.
Those in the former group, I could care less about. Maybe someone who values me as a customer will take their place.
And yes, I am frustrated. We are starving for more retail and dining here. When a new restaurant opens up, I get excited hoping it will be a good one. When it’s not, I hope it will turn around. When I see that it doesn’t appear to want to, I get frustrated. That explains my frustration with small businesses.
What’s the explanation for why you hate customers who complain? Tired of too many of your own complaining? Maybe if you stopped “working for yourself” and started working for them, you’d be less frustrated?
#53 Sam- Who the hell cares where you work. I don’t like to cook and as such, I eat out often. I choose to avoid Buffington’s because I have the palate of a 40 year old man, not a 12 year old boy eating at the Midway of the State Fair. I also have a Sam’s Club membership so if I wanted Buff’s overpriced frozen items packaged for resale, I could get them myself without paying the markup.
Laura- I don’t seem to recall where anyone attacked these men on a personal level. I think we all want them to succeed with flying colors. I do think however, that their customers have spoken, and we’d like them to heed our advice and implement some changes which will hopefully lead to a better product
Btw Laura, to your earlier post I do realize that one of the owners is going through some tough personal times and that’s why I’m pointing the finger for the need to change at the one who is running the business right now.
I am with you on having some respect for folks while they work through a hard patch, especially when they’ve done a lot for developing retail in this space. You won’t hear anything directed at Buzzy from me and I genuinely hope everything works out for him.
Laura,
You are coming across as a little “high and mighty” here. Just because you are a small business owner does not give you the right to belittle everyone who is not. This blog isn’t really intended to be a forum where faceless neighbors can hurl personal insults at one another, so you could stand to lay off the “rude, nasty remarks” yourself.
I hope I am not stepping too far out of bounds to remind you that you most likely benefit from services of those who work for larger companies, just as people benefit from your small business’s services. For example, if you have ever needed a loan for your business, you probably went to a bank, which is usually full of respectable people working hard at their jobs, even though they are not small business owners. You may also have used insurance from a larger company or tax services or payroll services, etc. I hope you don’t diminish these people who help you succeed in your business just because they work at a desk.
So get off your high horse, and remember that our economy needs people to work at all sorts of jobs, at large companies and small, and give everyone else a little more respect.
That said, I do agree with you that some of the comments about Buffington’s lately have gone beyond constructive criticism. But I don’t think many things on here have been untrue, just not thoughtfully said. I have seen them pass off factory-made pesto, guacamole, etc as fresh-made, so most of the other comments about the food seem plausible to me.
Laura D knows all about bad businesses. Ever been to the MDP? Holy smokes! Birds of a feather…
I like Buffington & Wine’s but did someone mention deli food?! Yum! Matzo ball soup, knishes, and deli style sandwiches on fresh rye, challah, pumpernickle, onion rolls and salads packed to go would be awesome!
Seemingly, items such as these could be easily (if slowly) incorporated into the menu, but I am not an expert in this arena.
Until then, I will try support Buffington & Wine’s, as I do every other restaurant at the top of the Hill.
Well said and very respectful MrsAlex.
So where was this uprising when Bottoms Up started in the bottom?
I really wish people would stop calling this pizza frozen pizza. It is one thing to not like the thicker crust type pizza, loaded with half an inch of cheese. It is another to link this pizza to freezer bought junk. Boo hoo, they don’t make their dough on site. You know what, I have met the owners and I think this is a good thing. They are new to the pizza scene, and I am pretty sure the local bakery can do a better job making the dough. They use fresh dough and they have a normal conveyer type pizza oven. They make fairly normal pizza. Let’s not get melodramatic in here.
This thread has really jumped the shark. #60 – Elena, I’m very sorry that you didn’t have good time at our show. We strive to make our evening enjoyable for everyone who attends. We have been in business for 18 years, and as the market has barred out, we have succeeded. You may not like what we do, and that’s OK. Did you contact us with your complaints? We always respond to criticism and make right with our customers. Our long track record can attest to that.
I have worked for many other people before starting our business in all kinds of work sectors and involving a lot of customer service. I understand and respect everyone who is out there making a living however they can.
I just seems to me, as Elena has so eloquently pointed out, that the internet has turned some consumers into a very nasty bunch that lack the ability to interact with other human beings, or know how to resolve issues with others. Maybe that’s why Elena doesn’t like my biz – we encourage interaction.
MrsAlex (Jeez why don’t people use there real names on this damn blog!!!!) How have I been disrespectful to you all? Because I am defending small business owners? I’ve been on both sides, employee and employer and have a different perspective than most of you, that’s all.
Several people on here haven’t even been to Buffington’s and are dissing it. How messed up is that? I’m just saying that consumers are a real surly bunch these days and you need to get some perspective on that, and look at yourselves as much as you think that the small business owner needs fix their problems.
I am reluctantly going to jump into this discussion because it is touching on a subject that I feel strongly about. I haven’t been to Buffington’s, and can’t comment on the place. People have made comments referring to my business. I will respond to that only by saying I work hard to try to entertain people, and a make a living. The degree to which I am successful probably depends on whom you talk to.
The problem I have with this site is the anonymity. The sad state of our “connected” world is that it makes us more disconnected. I am a strong believer that a person has to own their opinions. There are consequences to all we do. As a business owner, yes, you do have to be ready for criticism. But if someone wants to put forth their opinion, they should also be prepared to accept feedback. I don’t believe that anyone here would think it acceptable to paper the neighborhood with flyers, anonymously degrading a local business, or a neighbor, and yet that is exactly what occurs when you post under assumed names.
The term bouncing around these days is “cyber bullying.” That term can be applied just as easy to a business as it can be to an individual. That is exactly what happens when you post anonymously.
We all have the right to express opinions. I happen to feel in a business setting, the most effective way is to go straight to the business owner. It is the most constructive and effective way to communicate. However, if you find that you can’t do that and want to air your opinions online, you should ask yourself, “If I don’t want someone to know that it’s me expressing this opinion, should I really be posting it?”
At times in the past, I have posted on this site under assumed names, but came to the realization that it was not a good thing. It is never right to post any criticism on a site such as this without posting your first and last name. It is a matter of integrity and respect.
Jim Daab
The pizza is what it is, like it or not. I personally don’t like being sold on false ingredients. If the menu says kalamata olives, I expect kalamata olives. If the menu says italian sausage, I expect italian sausage. If the menu says canadian bacon, I expect canadian bacon. I’ve had three pizzas there trying to ‘support’ local business and my neighborhood. They have undercut me every time with poor excuses for the food that I’ve listed above. Why should I take pity on a poor struggling business that has no regard for the consumer? Go start a Ponzi scam and focus your efforts outside of the neighborhood. That goes for you too Captain Buzzy. I’ll never pay for your coffee again.
Jim,
I disagree with you but respect your opinion. I choose not to post my full name as I don’t want some nut job I’ve never met stalking me or threatening me but I would say anything I’ve said here directly to him (a lot of it I already have) and he knows who I am. I have eaten at his restaurant several times to give him the benefit of the doubt so this is not groundless feedback. I have also tried to keep my posts limited to constructive feedback rather than getting personal. I also feel like bringing names into it opens the door to personal attacks on posters, something I do not like to see either. I could care less what you do or who you are. I am on here to have a discussion about ideas for the community. If I know who is posting, it’s tempting to discount or overweight their opinion.
With regards to Internet criticism, there’s nothing new here. People have always said negative things about businesses when they have a bad experience. If anything, the Internet is good because we as business people can now see what’s being said and fix our business so it doesn’t happen again. Sure it moves faster and broader now, but so can positives. Do you think it would be better if everyone just said all these nasty things to their friends and family offline? You’d have the same impact but you’d have no way to tell why business dropped. I personally am glad I can see what customers are complaining about with my business as it allows me to adjust.
I also would love it if customers took their time and went through the trouble of making it easy for me to get their feedback. It’s also asking a lot of them. It’s not their job to make my business better, it’s mine. I’ll take it anyway they want to offer it. In fact my company spends a lot of money to get customers to tell us their complaints since we want to hear them. It’s called a focus group and it hurts but it keeps business good.
@64. You said: “I’m just saying that consumers are a real surly bunch these days and you need to get some perspective on that, and look at yourselves as much as you think that the small business owner needs fix their problems.”
That IS an interesting perspective and I hope you’re joking. The internet and very competitive consumer-based business landscape has produced the most educated buyer in history. Consumers have multiple options from which to choose and information is readily available. An educated consumer makes for a great customer of good businesses.It doesn’t make them “surly”. When one starts questioning the consumer, they really need to look at themselves. Consumers can do funny things…they’ll make your business just like they’ll break your business. Isn’t it funny how treating the customer right while providing a great product for the money has helped to promote OMG Cafe. These folks are on to something great and the consumer WILL support them. OTOH, folks are feeling a bit ripped-off by the Buffington’s experience and they’ve clearly spoken. These folks don’t owe the business owner (or YOU) anything. No explanation, no loyalty, no good words, no nothing. Welcome to the 21st century…computers, the internet, and anonymity are here to stay. Smart business owners will figure out how to make it work to their advantage. Don’t blame the consumer…they’re expressing their rights.
#68: We are all human and I think that people forget that online sometimes. As for expressing their rights, that’s a whole other tedious conversation.
I’m sorry, but when I was waiting for my pizza at Buffington’s, I strolled around the place (seeing as though there was nowhere to sit then) The pizza crusts in the commercial freezer (which sat in the middle of the restaurant) were indeed of the FROZEN variety…plain as day for all to see. Now, it’s entirely possible that the crusts are prepared locally and flash frozen, but they are FROZEN nonetheless. I looked for some evidence of a local product on the packaging but I couldn’t ascertain it’s origins.
It doesn’t even matter. The crust was merely one of several issues I had with the pizza. Bland, flavorless sauce, way too much cheese and cardboard-like crust made me NEVER want to try it again. I imagine I’ll venture up there again one day, if only to satisfy my curiosity. I VERY BADLY want a pizza place that I enjoy to be within walking distance of my home…..
You can freeze fresh pizza dough if not used right away. Once brought back to temp, it will be almost the same as before. I used to make pizza for a living, so I know all about it.
As for great pizza close by, unless you are lazy, there are 2 decent places within walking distance of CH. Sette is good but not amazing. Still easily accessible and decent quality. Aziza’s is just down the road from that, and they are more authentic Italian pizza. I also mentioned that Tarrant’s delivers to church hill, so we are not lacking good pizza. IMO, Buffington’s would have made the perfect soup and sandwich shop. That requires very little kitchen space, and would fill a gap in the CH area.
Amen, James (#71). That’s exactly what I was hoping for. Soup, sandwich, salad. There’s a reason the State Fair only comes to town once a year.
bottom line, i believe, is it’s shameful when people open businesses to serve food and instead peddle cheap, non-nutritious food to people. we have a major problem with health in this country DIRECTLY linked to people being coerced into eating processed, preserved food. contemporary restaurant owners should feel compelled to, and i believe, have a responsibility to serve people food that is healthy and fresh, no excuses- money can still be made, and the food can certainly be filling, satisfying, and delicious using quality ingredients. it’s a science, but not rocket science.
i used to patronize buzzy’s only because it was within walking distance from my home, but after being served a ROTTEN egg salad sandwich, returning it, asking for my money back and having to deal with an employee who didnt know how to refund my money to me, only to deal with the owner himself TWO DAYS LATER…..let’s just say im still bitter even years later.
my point is: when you walk into a business, and assess that they hire people who dont want to be there, don’t know their job well enough to make sure they’re not serving spoiled food, you’re in trouble. after that assessment, you look up and there’s an inch of dust on everything, you’re listening to some terrible radio station, sysco boxes laying around, the food prep areas are a mess, coffee beans are burning, the cream and sugar are on a table in between the bathrooms (now how feng shui is that?)…..you probably won’t get a great product. i expect nothing better out of a second business owned by the same people, and to be honest, im kinda pissed they had hubris enough to open a second business.
wise up.
My spouse and I rode our bikes to Buffingtons and brought home decent wine at a great price without negotiating the hill to the Market. This is reason enough for us to hope for B&W’s success.
My spouse and I rode our bikes to the Blue Wheeler and brought home decent malt liquor at a great price
without negotiating the hill to the Market. This is reason enough for us to hope for Blue Wheeler’s success.
My wife and I walked to Buffington’s and Wine’s and brought home mediocre pizza at a high price without negotiating the hill to the Market. This is reason enough not to care how they do with their current format.
I suppose I should take something from @Kevin’s comment and I do: Blue Wheeler exists because there’s a market for their products and they’re meeting an obvious demand (obvious because I can watch their product being consumed outside of, behind, and likely inside the store). Buffington’s is at least trying to meet my demands with their wine offerings at price points that can’t be beat and doing so without disturbing surrounding neighbors. I will reward them with my business, and provided my neighbors have the right information, they will too. Information helps markets run more efficiently and CHPN is a good tool for that purpose.
I’ve personally told 100 people how bad Buffington’s is. I’ve asked them to tell 10 people each…Thats 1000 people who will be warned about the piss poor quality of Sams Club resale products at this horrific, dreadful excuse of a “restaurant”
Is the “Wine” out at Buffington’s? It looks like his name has been removed from the front window. If he is out, that would be a good thing. Maybe they’ll get a few more people step inside the place…what a d..k!
Laura,
I noticed that also. It appears that the restaurant is now “Buffington’s & .” I wonder which of the two parties made the decision to remove the Wine portion? Hopefully this change won’t be the only thing that changes there.
Has anyone stopped in since the name change? Any idea if the menu or food have changed along with the name?
‘Wine’ is the last name of one of the two owners of the establishment. If he’s out then I can only assume that this was Bob Buffington’s plan the whole time…open up a sh*tty place with someone else’s money, push them out then try to put forward a ‘new’ venue and screw his partner out of his part. But that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
There’s a sign on the window that the menu will be changing…thank God!
I’m curious to see what the new menu will look like. Probably missed a golden opportunity on the sandwich shop possibility. Str8 out of Philly has proven that there WAS an untapped market for that. Not sure what’s left open for them now that isn’t done better by someone else. I’d suggest a decent corner market perhaps?
Honestly, I think there still could be a niche for really good pizza at that location. I know we have several in the Bottom but a good specialty pizza shop up here may still do well.
I know you all think that the 1st Ammendment protects your right to anonymously or otherwise, call a neighbor/business owner a “dick”, and accuse another one of swindling customers and partners (as long as you say it is only your opinion), but I commend the RTD for changing their comment policies for very good reasons:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/local-news/2011/jun/28/tdmet01-timesdispatchcom-to-begin-new-facebook-com-ar-1133561/
I hope that RVA News blogs and their affiliates take notice and consider doing the same, but I’m not holding my breath.
Again, I’m not defending this restaurant and it’s owners as much as I am challenging the way people choose to discuss the business and it’s owners.
And, no “laura,” I’m not joking. If “elena” or anyone else wants to take an anonymous swipe at my biz again on this comment thread, I just feel sorry for you.
Laura Daab- As I recall, I never called Victor Wine a “dick” in my post. I believe I referred to him as a “d..k”. If it walks like a duck…it must me a duck. Please daaaling, keep your mind out of the gutter.
On another note, since Victor was just free labor and not really an owner, I guess I could refer to him as a dick. That seems as though it would better meet your standard (“the way people choose to discuss the business and it’s owners”).
I’ve never been to your business…is it good?
“laura”: Yeah, right. anonymous comments calling people names and leaving out the middle letter so that you can back peddle when someone calls you on your foul mouth.
Please daaaling…you are a coward.
Interesting article in today’s NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/04/opinion/04mon3.html?ref=opinion
This is for you Laura Daab and Buddy Corbett
Hello My Church Hill friends…Victor Wine here. For the most part, Bob and I have always disregarded the chpn after it became clear that those who were trying to tear us down with their negativity were the same folks who fought our ABC licensure, and would at all costs talk trash to damage our business. Take for instance, the angry guy not far away (laura…ha, gotcha!) whom after losing the battle of the ABC, took it personally that I had issue with HIS parking of HIS unlicensed (until recently) vehicle and would leave it parked illegally for weeks on end. Or perhaps the liar who indeed came in to ask if we would consider opening our shop to his business meeting(at 7:30 am mind you), was told yes, and was told that I would accomodate their meeting with coffee and pastries from Buzzys. A fee? Yes, nothing is free…however, anyone who has spoken to me personally would know that I would never say that I’m too busy to answer the phone. The stupidity of this makes your lies clear…so thanks. How about the character who knows for a fact that our pizza shells are of the “frozen” type. Well, I have offered before that Weimans bakery hand makes our crusts, which they do…to order. So… listen up butter cup. Jon and Leah, the rate at which you hoovered up our goods, looked me in the eye, telling me that everything was GREAT! leaves, at best, your integrity in question. The fact that you dogged out the great guys at the Alamo not long ago, yet then recently said they should be first for BBQ, shows that you as well are confused. Stop using Media general as a way to stuff your faces for free.
I indeed am no longer involved with the shop, however, those out there who claim to know of Bob and my business dealings makes me laugh. I have known Bob for several years, and he has the purest of intentions, and is generally a great guy. Bob is ultimately dealing with huge personal tribulation due to family illness. Give a brother a break.
As for me, thank you. I rejoice in my adversity. I understand that those who wish to sit around, denegrate others, and lie with alterior motives (in your cowardice and anonymity) only serves to widen my shoulders and make me stronger so that in the future I can carry even more weight and pull weaklings like you to safety. For the other 99 percent of Church hill who has supported us, thank you. For 100 percent of you, even the liars…especially the liars, peace, love and farewell.
@Victor, laura, et al
Is anybody here mature enough to take the high road? Just leave it alone. Fighting on the inernet is famously non-productive, and really only makes you look bad.
Victor, you and Bob were on the verge of gaining my sympathies until you jumped into the mud. You would have done better to just stay out of it.
Victor-
Buffington’s sucks. Your food sucks and the people who serve it SUCK. Plain and simple. OMG, Straight Out of Philly and Alamo are all superior options for anyone wanting real food as opposed to the Sam’s Club GARBAGE that you and the other huckster offered.
I’ll say it here and I’d GLADLY tell you to your face. Frankly, I don’t care about your personal problems. No one cares about you or Bob. This was a thread about your new business venture and the quality of the product you offered (or lack thereof) Sorry if you’re too thin-skinned to handle a little HONEST criticism.
“For the other 99 percent of Church hill who has supported us, thank you.”
How are you defining “support” in this?
If you mean % of residents who wanted to see you do well when you first opened, I think this is probably accurate. There are some haters out there but most of us did want to see you succeed, myself included.
If you mean % of residents who were financially supporting you with their patronage, I think the percentage is much much lower.
The big gap between the two is largely driven by the fact that you didn’t seem to want to make the changes necessary to adapt to what the community wanted. You can blame the haters if you want but there’s a lot bigger opportunity that you wasted by insisting on delivering what you wanted rather than what the community wanted, even after it was pretty clear that your business model wasn’t the right one.
Best of luck to you in your future endeavors. You’re a decent guy and I hope you find success at whatever you do next. In the future, if you do try the restaurant business again, consider getting someone with experience in that arena and reaching out to the community more.
Wow.
Says the “Hill guy” as he hides behind the anonymity of the “Hill guy”
What’s with all the hate? Let the man do what he wants with HIS business. If you don’t like it just go somewhere else, no need to berate him for making something you don’t like.
I never went in because I know several people who did, and they all reported to me that the quality of the food was very low, prices too high, and the attitude of the waitstaff was unwelcoming. So, I didn’t bother to try it. Only one of those people bothers to read this blog, and she has tried OMG several times and found it to be really good, plus she told me the owner there is welcoming. So, I don’t count as part of that 99% either, except in the early days when I hoped that Buffington’s would succeed, and those days are gone unless I hear they’ve changed both product and attitude.
Victor, your post here does not make me want to try it now, either. I don’t know what you were trying to do by posting here, but if it was to encourage people to go to Buffington’s, it sure didn’t work with me. Sounds like vindictive former owner to me. Just my two cents.
Victor “Whine” pouts “hides behind the anonymity”
Are you serious? You come off as a pissy, bitter, vindictive former business owner.
Unlike some people here, I DID stop by Buffington’s several times…and I was sorely disappointed with the quality of your food. Your crusts may have been “flash frozen” locally but they were frozen nonetheless. I SAW the bag in the large commercial freezer which was on display in the dining area for all to see (at least during the first few weeks of operation) Whatever they are, they weren’t good….at all….and it took way, wayyyyyyy too long.
…and who divulges their identity online? Especially in a thread about a shi**y snack bar in Church Hill????
hey laura you silly twat, comparing the mean spirited crap you routinely dribble to “FREEDOM OF SPEECH” is what assures me of your stupidity. if you want to be a gutless harpy,fine, but dont even try to hide behind a freedom that heroes died to secure to anonymously vent your spleen. i dont WANT to know who you are as i am already nauseous from your mixture of venom …..and pathos. whats it like to be deluded to the point of idiocy?dumbass.as for the rest of you? a deep sigh of disappointment. tough guy threats from a circle jerk. yeah secret hatin is the way to go. its so ……liberating to the tinyhearted.let the market have its way. what you guys say about buffingtons isnt criticism. its masturbation .
Hillcat, is right. Let the free market decide the fate of Fries, Pies, & Franks.
We also stopped in ONCE and have never been back. We got the pesto pizza and it was awful- too greasy, and I don’t consider green flecks in white sauce as “pesto”.
Interestingly enough, this thread wasn’t as vicious as previous threads about this place yet Laura Daab and Victor both felt it necessary to berate people. I think Alex’s constructive critiques are right on and I hope Buffington takes them into consideration.
I actually learned a few POSITIVE things on this thread- I didn’t know there was a new chef at the pub (thank God because last summer the food there wasn’t that great) and OMG cafe- which is only 2 blocks from me sounds great. Can’t wait to check it out! Thanks neighbors.
I’ve gotten so much out of this thread that I started a discussion around it on my blog. I’m probably inviting trouble by getting involved, but as someone who wants to see good restaurants thrive and bad ones fade away, I’m not going to pretend I’m totally above it. But, I am on the fence about some of the issues, and I’m hoping people outside Church Hill read this thread and weight in, either here or on my blog.
http://www.rvafoodie.com/2011/07/church-hill-bites-you-right-back/
I think the market has decided.
holy crap! buddy corbett rules it again! wow. you should have your own talk show. i think oprah is looking for a replacement. i’m being completely/mostly serious! well said, sir.
#102 – Hey Jason! You don’t know me, but I recognized your url. A few days ago I actually posted a link to your “Endangered Afghan Restaurant” entry on my Facebook page. My friends and I can’t wait to go! 🙂
@104 – quit posting nonsense anonymously. If you’re going to make idiotic claims, use your real name 😛
Kevin,
When you go to The Box Afghan Kabob house, if it’s barren of customers, tell them to relocate to Church Hill where they’re sure to find some appreciative customers. Their food is fantastic, tho they might be a little unaccustomed to filling orders in a timely fashion. Their tedious preparation is your gain. Hope your FB network gives’em a try while they’re still afloat.
I can see why you two guys are pissed. Some complete douchebags tear down your business and finally you react. I’ve been to both of them, and approve whole heartedly of both.Probabably ill advised cause it will sap you strength, yet I can see why you reacted finally. Know that in the end, it’ll just be laura, alex, and the hill guy, alone, with a few candles and some assless chaps.
If you think Buffingtons is failing because of things said on here, you are delusional. Perhaps if we all lied and said it was awesome they might have gained a few more visitors. I tried to like their food and probably went their as much as any of their defenders has. I’ve told friends to try because maybe they’d like it or maybe I just had a bad experience and it’s still good to have a new business in the area. They just made it too hard to love them. I’m still open to trying it again if they change some things but in its current incarnation, there’s just better options for my time, money and appetite.
If you actually read my posts, you’d see I’ve tried to give constructive comments rather than just saying “it sucks, they’re f-ed.” If you read threads on other restaurants, you’ll see I have been very supportive of the ones that have done it right. I’m not trying to sink anyone. I’m just being honest and pointing out that the ship is sinking and trying to help them plug the hole.
Alex, I agree with your points, and I’d like to add one:
Blogs/online comment forums have no choice but to allow screen names/anonymity if they want content from the audience to keep flowing in. It’s more about the economics of media and less about the ethics of what we used to call journalism.
Blogs have been replacing traditional news sources (daily news papers, radio/TV news) for quite some time now. These new “news/information sources” are dependent on user (crowd-sourced/free) content. To get the volume of content needed to support a healthy blog, you have to cast a wide net, and make it as easy (safe, non-threatening) as possible for people to contribute. If everyone had to post full/actual names you’d choke-off the quantity of information to a trickle.
Take for example, CHPN. It wouldn’t be nearly as successful if it weren’t for the participation of the audience/online community. Readers/commenters value and appreciate publisher John Murden, but the key to CHPN’s popularity (and advertising potential) is the open conversation that flourishes within the community of readers/posters.
The audience provides free content that can be factual, opinionated, entertaining, and yes, sometimes bordering on libelous. Everyone, to some degree, as to be their own editor (there’s another job that went away with the downfall of daily newspapers.)
This use-generated content has value because everyday, hundreds if not thousands of eyeballs are looking at this and other neighborhood blogs. Advertisers are willing to pay for space alongside the content we help create. Advertisers support the expenses of the blog, just like they support the TD and the local TV stations programing. Keep in mind that by comparison, the expensed of a neighborhood blog are a tiny fraction of those of a newspaper or TV/radio news staff.
The economy of the blogosphere extends to the “professional” news outlets buy providing labor-saving story ideas. In the old days, reporters had to leave the news room and “look for a story” (that time hunting was on the clock.) Nowadays, a reporter can sit at her/his desk, read the neighborhood blogs, and then decide if there are stories worth going after. And they can do that in a fraction of the time it used to take pre-internet. We’ve all noticed how the the T-D, Style and the TV stations monitor the neighborhood blogs for story ideas. Reporters post on threads and ask for folks to contact them to provide more content for an additional story.
Allowing screen names and anonymity has become essential to keeping the free, user-generated comments flowing at the volume necessary to generate a steady stream of content. It’s the basic economic tenant of new news media.
Good post. Well said.
I think Elaine has made the most intelligent comment of anyone on this thread yet, and it’s not at all about the main topic:) I can’t say that I’m happy about it, but I think that she is right, and she said it better than anyone else has with her REAL name! Yeah!
I’ve met buddy corbett and I think he’s a pretty nice guy. His comments tend to be much more heated in writing than he is in person, but I think there are a few folks on here that are like that.
Elaine and I are friends and we have had many conversations about this blog and the issue of anonymity. I used to be a regular reader and commenter here, mostly for civic issues that I have been involved in, but I quit reading and commenting on here several months ago because I don’t like the anonymity and I don’t like the vitriol.
I ended up on this thread after clicking on a link in an online review about Buffington’s somewhere, and I wish I hadn’t. Same old, same old. I just feel bad for Bob and Victor. Cripes, what a stoning! That’s why many people I know do not read or participate on community blogs. Like me, they have turned to facebook and online groups to participate with people they know. I prefer to get my news from major media outlets and hyper-local news from my friends and neighbors that I know and trust.
Freedom of speech comes with responsibilities, and I don’t see a lot of that coming from commenters on community blogs, or anonymous forums. But as Elaine has stated, ” It’s the basic ECONOMIC tenant of new news media.” It sells.
For once we agree on something. I could do without the personal attacks and wish we’d debate issues without the ad hominem tangents.
Agreed, Alex. Cheers to ya.
Bob and Victor,
This thread left the front page of CHPN over 2 months ago yet neighbors remain offended by your product, lack of foresight and lack of delivery. I challenge you to find another thread on CHPN with as many negative comments about an establishment. You guys opened up half-a**ed without furniture or any ventilation for the clouds of smoke in the restaurant. Then you wanted to call it a restaurant. Then you hired teen-agers that, as I was at that age, don’t give a crap about much of anything. By the time that you had furniture, ABC and walked through random employees the community told you that ‘you’re doing it wrong’. Did you really think that this would survive on the ‘popularity’ of Buzzy’s. Buzzy’s sucks with the same Sam’s Club pastries and continually horrible service/attitudes. $6.95 for a quarter ounce of roast beef from Sam’s Club on cheap wheat bread? WTF? Church Hill residents are a bit picky but they also give restaurants a second and third chance to get it right. I truly doubt that this thread is composed only by folks that opposed your ABC license. I supported it but can’t stand the delivery of your business plan. Disrespect your customers and they’ll do the same for you
Yep Buddy…I may be a stupid twat as you said. But here’s what I do know. One of us is standing at the door in a local dive bar checking IDs for $14.00/hr. I also know that it ain’t me. LOL! Loser.