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Brick-hurling teens rampage on R Street
05/15/2012 6:25 AM by John M
Smashed windows and dented cars littered a Church Hill neighborhood Monday, after a late-night rampage early Sunday morning involving 30 or more teenagers and young adults, according to neighbors. […] Some neighbors living nearby told CBS 6 that the brick-hurling- which lasted for at least an hour-went on uninterrupted without any police response.
The article hints at a link to the Mosby shooting but doesn’t make it clear why that may be. This must have been surreal for those involved (innocent parties). RPS too busy hassling the club goers I suppose.
They also stormed down Q Street at 12:30 am and threw bricks at several cars on our block including mine. I woke up to see at least 30 kid running towards 31st Street. The police were called, and no one ever came.
When dealing with something like this, be sure to call 911 and not the non emergency number. They have to track all 911 calls. So, it is harder to ignore them. Keel calling.
http://www.richmondgov.com/Police/Precinct1.aspx is a link to our precint. Follow up via email. I had an issue several years ago, followed this approach, and found the sector Lieutenant to be very helpful, even arranging a face to face meeting.
Diaz, shouldn’t it be “these teens need to find themselves jobs?” Based on their acts, I suspect a lot of the lack of jobs might be related to their behavior. This is not what normal people do. Sounds more like a pack of wild animals.
The entitlement classes are getting bored and restless.
911 was called for this incident as they threatened my neighbor. I think CBS did a better job on reporting this incident as they specifically stated that the police could not produce a response ticket.
http://wtvr.com/2012/05/14/residents-30-teenagers-threw-bricks-at-homes-cars/
My neighbor and I were the ones who contacted the press and our councilwoman as we were very upset about the lack of police response. If kids know they can get away with this once, nothing is going to stop them from doing it again.
In the early morning hours of May 13th I was jolted by sounds of bricks flying, cars being damaged, (including my own), and the angry sounds of thirty of more young people outside my home on Q St. This mob had obviously amassed long before arriving in our neighborhood and there were thirty or more of them wreaking this havoc upon us. I saw a child who couldn’t have been more than ten years old, hurling a brick at my own automobile.It was utter chaos.
I personally made a 911 call and a non-emergency communications call at the onset of this event. Each time I was advised that the police were “en route”. Those squad cars never arrived. I watched that well organized group head east on Q St., directly toward the First Precinct, until they were out of sight, with absolutely no indication of police intervention.
My neighbors and I were left to fend for ourselves to try and protect our personal property as well as our very lives.
Our community has made repeated non-emergency calls to report suspicious activities, we’ve provided tips that may assist in solving open crime issues, and in times of dire danger we’ve reached out using the emergency communications system available to us. We are begging local police to tell us what we can do further to help them help us.
This position also leaves us in the fearful state that those who would do us harm will retaliate and that the police will feel defensive and ambushed and thus reluctant to help. We’re a connected community only wishing to pursue our lives in peace and safety while incorporating a meaningful relationship with those who protect and serve.
KS
The fact RPD did not respond is very concerning. This event could have gone from bad to worse if the mob had vandalized the wrong person’s property and a gun/guns had been drawn.
There will be more on this on the wtvr ch 6 news at 5pm.
I wonder if the police held back for fear it would escalate with their presence? But at the same time, there is no excuse for letting a situation devolve into lawless chaos like this.
If the report about this being a Mosby based group is accurate, this is absolutely galling and further evidence that our public housing experiment is a miserable failure. These folks that live in housing paid for by the very people whose property they are trashing? Throw anyone involved with this off of public assistance immediately. We need to start holding folks receiving free stuff from taxpayers to some standard of accountability. Otherwise we create the kind of entitlement mentality that believes this sort of shit is acceptable and funny.
The police have got to get their act together. More patrols to protect the taxpayers, less time wasted hassling them with speedtraps and writing citations to businesses.
I’ve had to call 911 5 times this year for shootings, fights, robbery and a woman pooping in my back yard. 4 times I was hung up on, put on hold, rudely told I had called the wrong department (uh, I dialed 911) or been given an attitude and spent more time fighting with the operator to get them to believe there is a crime taking place than actually addressing the crime. One call the lady was very nice, but the car she said was on the way never came. The only time a car ever came, he just shined his light on the suspect and watched him run away (isn’t that a felony?) but never bothered to get out of his car or pursue them with his vehicle. So I doubt this has anything to do with this particular crime, rather it seems to be standard operating procedure for RPD in the Churchill area. And FYI I can nearly see the precinct from my house, I can’t imagine the lack of response if you were even further from the station.
can we please not pretend that dumb kids in the suburbs don’t do stupid shit?
how about the deep run high school girl that drove drunk and killed a grown man on his way home from work?
it doesn’t matter where you live, teens do dumb shit. screwing over their family, who probably lacks resources from the community, lack education, and lack a job that would make it possible to find other housing, well, their kid does something stupid (what teen doesn’t?) and lets hold the whole family accountable? Sure, find the kids and press charges, but don’t make a family homeless because of some twisted message about entitlement.
Driving drunk is stupid shit. Tearing up a neighborhood is a whole different ballgame. It shows a complete disregard for others property. If the kid in Deep Run set out to have that accident, that would be about the same thing. One is poor judgment (which teens are known for), the other is hateful.
Kick out the innocent families? Which ones are you referring to? The ones who raised these monsters and let them roam all night with no supervision? Not doing much good to keep them in there is it? Let’s get some more deserving and appreciative needy folks in there in their place. Free housing is not a universal right. It’s one thing when it’s provided as a safety net to folks who genuinely work to improve their standing, another when it is given to folks who shit all over it and raise their children to do shit like this.
I did my fair shair of stupid shit as a teenager but something like this goes well beyond normal teenage behavior.
To just a neighbor. Whether kids in other neighborhoods do this or not is irrelevant. I’ve seen this group patrolling the streets a few weeks ago and apparently they are becoming violent. This is something that needs to be addressed. Have you seen the destructions flash mobs have caused in other cities? Look up 7-11 flash mob on YouTube, that’s what this is leading to. It needs to end now
What about the rights of the other people on public assistance not to live next to hooligans? We already fail them by cloistering all of the public housing together, denying them access to and support from neighbors at different levels of success. We should at least guarantee their safety.
Instead, we let the dregs of society live next to nice little grandma who is on social security, and next to the struggling single moms of the world, causing these innocent people to be victims and to develop a dislike of and distrust for law enforcement because it fails to protect them.
Funny that the police have been mostly mum on this whole thing. I mean, sure, they’ve made the standard “We are working with the community to improve safety.” statement, but never once did they stand up (as far as I know) and say, “No, we were there and we aren’t ignoring you.” or “We are committed to stopping this.”
Silence speaks volumes, RPD. And while you’re working on increasing patrols, try increasing your PR and customer service efforts (911 has hung up on me, too!).
People: let’s not forget that the police station is 6 blocks away from where this had happened. 6 blocks! The fact that nobody showed up Saturday night after repeated calls is an absolute joke. Ridiculous. This is not about WHO was causing the damage. This is not about public housing and project kids being upset about something. This is about multiple people calling 911 multiple times and having NO RESPONSE from police just 6 blocks away. Let’s keep the discussion focused on that because any community where police don’t show up when you or your property are in danger needs to put its foot down.
Has anyone talked to the police and found out what restricted them from not intervening?
The idiocy of these kids and lack of response from the police is disturbing to say the least… did WTVR ever follow up? If RPD doesn’t own up what’s the next level to take it to?
Mr. Kleyman is very much on target. We are not to decide or judge the motivation of the who created this event. That is in God’s hands. It is to be dealt with by a power greater than ourselves.
Our focus needs to be redirected on how we may avoid and approach situations such as this one in an effective manner by creating a spirit of unity between those who would help us and our community.
It serves no purpose to point fingers and place blame.What’s done is done. Local law enforcement has every intention of assisting us in times like these and we must work with them to the best of our ability.
Creating meaningful dialog among us all is paramount to our success. Perhaps this is the place to start.
Agree with #14, 17 & 19. I would be scared to live in an area where my calls to the police are ignored. Also, I really don’t think people should be judging the people who live in Mosby court who are just trying to scrape by. Entitlement culture? Yeah, I would feel extra lucky and entitled to live in crummy run down apartments where maybe a few doors down is a drug dealer who I can’t even call the police about because I’ll either get ignored by the police or shot for my trouble.
I know many of these people. They are good people in a bad situation. Should these kids be apprehended and dealt with? Absolutely. Can parents control everything their kids do? Nope. Parents can try their best, but sooner or later kids are gonna do what they’re gonna do. Kids are like people that way.
Someone from this block(s) where the incident occurred should definitely follow up on this with the police though. The lack of response and/or communication with local residents is what I find especially troubling about these recent events.
Just saw this retweeted by CHPN
http://wtvr.com/2012/05/15/police-respond-to-church-hill-resident-claims/
I guess they did respond, they just didn’t follow up well with the victims. What I took away from this news clip is to mention my life is in danger or I feel unsafe the next time I call the police about something similar. I live a block away from where those people were shot around a week ago, gun shots fired 3 nights in a row. Next time you can bet I’ll be trying to take pictures/video of the events if I can.
None of us deserve this crap, children and families in Mosby included, so you can bet I’ll be doing everything I can to catch these people.
For those that missed it, WTVR ran a followup last night that basically said:
1. Police did show up quickly but focused on apprehending the perps rather than checking in with the victims, hence the fact that the victims may not have seen them. (Sounds logical, though in this case they came up empty handed)
2. The reason for the slower than normal response was partly due to the first few calls getting coded as vandalism. Vandalism gets a slower response since it’s not considered a clear threat to life.
3. If people had made it clear that it was a mob situation, they would have gotten a faster response as RPD takes this seriously.
For those that want to make this just about RPD and ignore the broader societal problem, Richmond is not alone. It seems this is becoming a common pattern among our nation’s youth. Since the beginning of April, similar occurences have happened in St. Louis, Gainesville, Portland, Norfolk, Harrisburg and Mobile. We were relatively fortunate in that nobody appears to have been hurt.
http://violentflashmobs.com/
While it’s scary that the RPD couldn’t catch these kids, it’s scarier still that this is what we are devolving into as a nation. Even with the best possible response time, a lot of damage can happen very quickly with groups this large. Time to make sure the guns are cleaned and loaded and you have enough ammo.
“Mr. Kleyman is very much on target. We are not to decide or judge the motivation of the who created this event. That is in God’s hands. It is to be dealt with by a power greater than ourselves.”
Seems if there were a god he/she could have dealt with this by not letting it happen in the first place.
I do not believe the police responded like the spokesperson said in that piece from last night’s news. I specifically talked with the Detective assigned to the vandalism case, and he said that a robbery was called in at the same time which diverted most cops on duty. If you look at the original story, WTVR posted that the police have not released the response time sheet. In addition, the spokesperson said that they tried to apprehend the teenagers, but I was also told by the police that they would not attempt to apprehend a ton of kids at one time. Instead, they would be looking for the specific individuals who had committed the vandalism crime. The Detective I spoke with yesterday was very helpful, but I am concerned about the rest of the RPD covering their behinds in this case.
I bet the arson at Armstrong is related to this incident in some way, at least maybe it was started by some of the same perpetrators.
RPD is trying to reduce the number of felony charges on their books. There are many ways to do this…inaccurate reports, slow or no response, fake ‘higher priority’ calls trumping yours, disorganized communication, confusion about policy (esp. ‘we don’t want to risk civil liberties’ which they can’t even name). The most powerful thing to do…TAKE PHOTOS or VIDEO and GET LICENSE PLATES of all suspicious behavior. DOCUMENT, then protect the original! Here are things we’ve done and had work …safely follow the perpetrator while giving ‘play by play’ shoe/pant descriptions to dispatch until police arrive (following a criminal is ‘high priority’ and there are more than 2 units on any shift who can come and take over), then watch to make sure an arrest is made. If the police try and quote Virginia laws, check them out yourself. Even some of our commonwealth attorneys don’t know them…believe us.
Still not impressed w/ the response? Call back to dispatch and track all personnel, both officers and lead dispatchers. If you suspect the police ‘overlooked’ the location and perpetrators, ask for a dispatcher to repeat what was typed in the system AND ask for the code used by the so-called responding officer who ‘cleared the call’. If they won’t give it (they should), get a ‘calls for service’ report from Crime Stats. By law you can also video those few bad officers from any public property or your own personal property.
Criminals will go as far as to fire off a gun to divert the police from a real crime. Good officers know this and are frustrated too.
We don’t like how certain dispatchers and police purposely ACCOMODATE to keep stats low. As you gather your ‘evidence’, you will be surprised at the poor (felonious?) performance of certain dispatchers and particular ‘3p- 7am’ officers at First Precinct. An internal investigation by an OUSIDE agency should be ordered…seriously!
Yet, be prepared,…as we law-abiding citizens DOCUMENT and report to the media these felonious actions in Churchill, guess what those leaders and criminal citizens bent on evil will do?!…change the laws! Get to know your public official’s loyalty and VOTING RECORDS, and go out there and start DOCUMENTing bad behavior. Do not be afraid. We can make a difference without fear.
Has anyone called for a meeting with the First Precinct leadership? This should be arranged and hold them accountable in a public venue. Have any of these concerns been bubbled up to Norwood with a cc: to Jones? Ask him for a response. Hold these folks accountable to get the answers you need.
So, who’s up for archery and atlatl training?
Hi, looking into moving to Church Hill? Yet again, the advice:
South of M Street
West of North 35th Street
East of North 21st Street
I am not condemning the brave souls who buy/rent elsewhere. But I can guarantee if that mob had moved anywhere outside those outlined perimeters the RPD would have been on them like white on rice. As Metallica once said, sad but true.
Excuse me, I meant inside.
Oh, in no way am I saying that we don’t have a seriously violent lower socio-economic class youth. There are some serious issues of violence among our children. Much of this is manifesting due to the conditions of poverty, abuse and neglect that the children face in their communities. This isn’t just about poor city youth either. This is rampant in many communities, both rural, suburban and urban.
And then some of it is peer pressure and mob mentality. It only takes one popular teen who is troubled to stir a lot of trouble up.
I just don’t think “booting the hooligans” and their parents is the answer. I think more services to help meet the basic needs of our floundering youth is.
@34 – is there anything you think throwing more good money after bad won’t solve?
And which of their “basic needs” is not already covered by those of us who actually work everyday? We are giving them housing, food, utilities, a little walking around money, healthcare…
The only basic need I can think of is entertainment. Are you suggesting they are rioting because they are bored? Well shit, let’s buy them all new video games. Shame on us for not thinking of that earlier!
Alex,
I agree. #34 seems to be making excuses for them. It never seems to be the perpetrator’s fault. The fault always lies on someone else. Oh, and no need to buy them video games…they have probably already stolen some from someone‘s house.
As far as the police response goes, that is troubling indeed!
#34 does seem to be beating the old drum that crime stems from lack of govt services when in fact it stems from immorality. I seriously doubt that there is any sane person on this earth that thinks throwing bricks through windows is an acceptable act.
And parents are legally responsible for thier kids actions until they turn adult. Make them be responsible. That might help.
Finally, I suspect the polices slow response was due in part to the fact that sunday night is normally a slow night so they are staffed at lower levels.
#32 – Trish: so you’re basically saying the police will respond quickly anywhere where there’s majority white people right? That’s essentially what you’re getting at? Ironic that you chose the expression “white on rice”…
There is a new civic association forming for this area of Church Hill. They met last night at the Robinson Theatre and I know a representative from RPD was supposed to be there and will be attending every meeting. This civic association will cover the areas outside of the St. Johns Historical District, so Chimborazo, Oakwood, Church Hill North, etc. I could not attend the meeting last night but I did attend the first meeting and crime is definitely at the top of the agenda.
Lucky Canine – do you know where can I get more information on said civic association?
Until you have worked with the children or parents in these neighborhoods, you have no space to talk about what they do and do not have. Once again, we are criminalizing an entire neighborhood, and entire social class because of the actions of a few.
All of us “hard working folks” paying for all these “hooligans” is the same old tea party rhetoric that has been going for ever.
If you had any insight into the kinds of aid many of the families receive, you would see that they aren’t getting thousands of dollars to spend as they please. Many of the children I work with understand that their money for food is spent on the first of the month and by the end of the month, they are coming to school hungry because the food provided wasn’t enough. Their parents often work multiple jobs, still not making enough to get out of poverty. The double edged sword is that even if they could obtain a better job which paid enough to get them off of assistance, it still wouldn’t be a living wage and they wouldn’t be able to survive.
please stop putting forth the assumption that people on assistance are lazy and just sitting around living off the fruits of our hard work. Many are stuck. The old “pul yourself up by your boot straps” myth doesn’t work.
At least, ‘pull your pants up’…….
“you would see that they aren’t getting thousands of dollars to spend as they please”
Should they be? Is this what you would propose? What incentive would there be to improve their standing then?
“we are criminalizing an entire neighborhood, and entire social class because of the actions of a few”
That was not what I was saying. I was saying we need to be honest and admit that the system does fail and is abused sometimes. We can keep throwing the money at the bad apples (creating further moral hazard) or we can use it to provide more help to the types of folks you refer to in all of your heartbreaking examples. The entire community is already penalized by the actions of those “few.” In fact they are done so in much worse ways than what I would ever propose. They are penalized by being forced to raise their kids with these bad apples living right next door and in their classrooms.
” The double edged sword is that even if they could obtain a better job which paid enough to get them off of assistance, it still wouldn’t be a living wage and they wouldn’t be able to survive.”
I agree with you. I even agree that it’s a shame. I suspect we disagree on why this is, how we got here and how it could be fixed though.
There is only one path that is going to get folks out of this mess – they need to learn skills and have the motivation to get a job where they can provide enough value to their employer that they justify a living wage. Asking folks to pay folks more than their workproduct is worth is not realistic. Would you pay me a thousand dollars each week to mow your lawn? No? Why not? What if I am very slow and it takes me the whole week. I need that much to survive…
Everyone in this situation for any meaningful amount of time is there because they are missing motivation, skills or has a disability (which is covered by a separate set of programs). I do believe there are a number of folks stuck in our projects who have the motivation and desire. Many have the raw tools needed and just need good training to unleash them. In fact a lot of America’s success stories used to come from the projects. Not so much lately. Why not?
The problem comes from continuing to insist that we not weed out the bad from the good. As a result, those kids with raw potential and desire end up receive a substandard education in failing schools that are too concerned with disciplinary issues to be able to teach. They grow up in projects surrounded by bad role models, drugs and violence because people insist that public housing be open to everyone, regardless of how much some have shown it doesn’t do them any good.
What the progressive movement in America has lost sight of is that they are not standing up for the truly deserving. Only a small fraction of our nation has a problem with helping motivated folks who are down on their luck. Many have a problem with the means through which the help is administered but those are often the folks who give the most through charities that use a more targeted approach.
Progressives are fighting for the folks who abuse the system, game the handouts and then bite the hand that feeds them. They are the only ones who are receiving a handout that wouldn’t be were not the progressives so passionately fighting for them. In fact the others might have more had we not been so disgusted at what some of our money has gone to. So you can thank our progressive movement for the failing schools and toxic environments that continue to create ever more sad stories about kids with potential and desire stuck in a bad loop.
The old “pul yourself up by your boot straps” myth doesn’t work.
It does when you aren’t forced to go to school with and live next to morally bankrupt folks who the system refuses to cut off and discipline.
@ 42, thank you for “summing it up”. Conservative nitwits who make sweeping generalizations about people in this neighborhood know little to nothing of the hardship/reality of their neighbors. I would imagine many of them live in Trish’s Bubble of safety.
No, of course no one wants to see flash mobs, flying bricks or “unresponsive” cops (who MIGHT actually be spread thin trying to police the whole neighborhood… nice try Danyelle but you are not in Fairfax or Soho). This reality is not exclusive to River City, as Alex wrote in comment #25. We have a society that is breeding greed, self importance, craziness and division. We now have multiple generations of people stuck in a rut of abject poverty. Shoving everyone alike who is on welfare/ssi into an 8 block radius like Mosby does NOT work. There are NO JOBS. There is no opportunity or generational emphasis on education. And for the record, far more people in the projects work than the people afraid of them will ever know.
An involved and aware community is the first step in communicating, understanding & networking to bettering things. Reality is, you often get paranoid, knee-jerk reactions from people who would probably be better suited to Shit Pump or Fan living. This neighborhood is crawling forward, despite its troubles, sensationalist headlines and setbacks like disadvantaged youth who have no outlet. It’s the greedy multiple property owners, closet racists and yuppies of Church Hill who think things are as simple as bitching on a website. There are a lot of folks trying to make a change and give a shit about more than themselves in Church Hill. There are a lot of people who lived here before the naysayers de jour showed up. Maybe the paranoid finger pointers need to get into their SUVs and make a beeline back to whatever gated community they came from… (am I being a bit sarcastic in my generalizing? damn straight I am. but I’d sooner generalize about the generalizers who are dragging this neighborhood down than join their ball-gargling Teaparty mindset.)
Be the change you want to see, or SHUT THE FUCK UP and move away if things in the big city scares you. Seriously. You’ll be closer to Target and Chipotle anyway.
also – #40, Thanks for passing the info on about the new civic association. Helping your neighbors network and learn about the neighborhood is what it’s all about.
Tinkerbell – you just made me laugh out loud with # 43. Thanks.
“If I had a son he’d look like………”-President Obama
I sincerely tried staying out of this discussion because I know what it will lead to, but once again this whole conversation went in completely the wrong direction and a lot of you are missing the point: people that got attacked with bricks don’t care at the time of the aforementioned bricks flying WHO it is that’s throwing the bricks and attacking them. A brick is a brick is a brick, whether it’s thrown by a kid from Mosby or Paris Hilton. The point is that when the bricks are flying and you and your neighbors are calling 911 again and again, when the police don’t show up at all something is very very wrong.
And those of you that want to make excuses for the “mob” or rationalize their behavior with the bigger socio-economic inequalities of our city (which are significant) – give me a freakin break. Personal responsibility should be required no matter where you are on the economic ladder.
Certainly, making generalizations about an entire group of people is wrong. I rent to a number single mothers who are receiving Section 8 assistance and all of them work 1 often 2 jobs supporting their families. Every single one is a good mother who tries to set a good example for her kids from what I can see.
But the particular people involved in these incidents should be held accountable – a crime is a crime no matter how disenfranchised you may be.
@”55 hours a week with East End kids” – for someone with so many opinions, why not post with your real name?
Daniil, sensible post and I agree with most of what you say. I think the only place I’d differ is that I think both are issues. If we have mob violence like this, even the fastest police response can still result in serious damage. I would hope the police would be faster and more effective than they were here but even better would be if it doesn’t happen.
@45- do you realize that you attempted to condemn “making swweping generalizations” in the same sentence that you impugned the intelligence of an entire group of people. You then proceeded to demonstrate further by making assumptions about where people lived by their points of view on a very controversial issue.
I’d take your perspective a lot more seriously if you could cut down on the ad hominems and make a logical argument without relying on such cheap tactics.
I actually agree with you that one of the most dangerous issues facing America today is some nasty divisions forming. If you want to put up a post that seems to have no point other than political name calling, go to msnbc.com or foxnews.com. It doesn’t further the discussion any.
Just out of curiousity, I am curious as to what you do with these children for 55 hours a week? Which organizations is this with?
This is a significant amount of time to volunteer and I commend you for your generosity and charity in your service to the community, even if I would prefer that you could be more civil, open-minded, and stick to coherent arguments. I certainly can’t argue that you are practicing what you preach by giving up your time so selflessly without pay.
I really hate it when the posts devolve into this. I hate the over generalizations and the self-righteousness. Does anyone make an effort to know their neighbors? I guarantee you that if the mob had hit my block, I would be able to identify some of the kids. That’s because I care about the whole neighborhoood and know the people. To many of the posters, these are just nameless thugs. If you knew them, you could call their parents or call them out. I hate the way some of our new neighbors dehumanize the other people. What happened was wrong, and I hope the teens are identified and will face consequences. But, I cannot stand the vitriole that is posted here. This is not what makes a community – this “us vs them” attitude. It’s disgusting and completely unchristian.
Bret: The next civic association meeting is scheduled for June 4 at 7 pm in the EDI building located at 25th and M Street. Please come!
@55 Hours–so I shouldn’t want to live somewhere where I don’t have to worry about young thugs going around smashing stuff with bricks? Oops, my bad.
@Daniil–thank you for the truth. When people excuse crime because “oh, they’re poor! They’re black! They’re (whatever)!” they perpetrate the cycle. As someone who for purely reasons of my own doing (mainly I was an idiot) lived in the projects I can tell you that the vast majority there just don’t care. They get their checks, buy their booze, lottery tickets and junk food, and spend most of their time staring mindlessly at TV. Crime? Going to jail? No big deal–again they get their clothing and meals for free. Men, in short supply, are waited on hand and foot by women who have been taught that they’re nothing without a man. The ones who do care get themselves out of there as fast as they can and don’t look back. And women dig their own holes by having kids. When we start teaching ALL young women that they have worth outside of being somebody’s girlfriend–or baby mama–then things can start turning around.
Alex, I do realize what I posted had a flow of generalization itself. That was my point to use parody in a literary context. If we were to sit over a cup of coffee I would not deliberately use such strategically placed vulgar language, sarcasrm, seeming assumptions or ALL CAPITALS. I deliberately wrote my posts in the tone I did to mock some of the previous posters and mock even myself. I also acknowledged some of the posters solid, valid arguments. There are many throughout the thread that are very valid and not as closeminded as some others appear.
Contextually, that was my point. However, I wrote using word choice just to hopefully get a rise out of some of the people who wrote certain things or might put the blinders on and agree with certain comments.
I need to remain anonymous as far as my job, really. It’s a liability issue – public postings on a community website bring the wrong kind of attention depending on the slant/tone, so when I take the role of gadfly and come across sardonic/sarcastic I need to assume a monkier. I will say this… that I know dozens and dozens of neighborhood kids through my job and that they are good kids. You literally would not believe what they go through. My embittered tone was a momentary ramification of frustration that some people are literally more concerned with what Paris Hilton is doing. The problems of the world itself – poverty, lack of education, division – are right before our eyes. The solutions will rise in people living/thinking fairly and investing time and money in the neighborhood. That could manifest itself in a job, after school tutorings, attending neighborhood meetings, supporting neighborhood businesses or renting mixed income properties. we are all in this together… that ultimately was the point i was attempting to put out there under the layers of my earlier posts.
you may actually already know me or have met me. you may have seen me at a neighborhood civic meeting. but for my job’s sake, i must remain incognito when i post things that are “over the top”.
So Tish… are all people who live in public housing idiots or
were just you one when you made the choice to live in the projects? I’ve known literally hundreds of people from the RVA projects and disagree that all of them embody the behavior you are accusing them. maybe your chosen “vacation” in the hood was made up of hanging around individuals who adhere to the stereotypes you write of. there’s an old saying – “tell me who your friends are and i’ll tell you who you are” – so maybe we can draw from that that YOU spent your time in the projects eating junk food, getting your booze on, watching tv & baby mama drama.
you did make a valid point that we as a society need to teach ALL young women to develop and follow through with better values that don’t make them dependent on a check or a deadbeat man. I assume if you had the insight to echo that in your post that at this point you do you part to help educate and inspire disadvantaged women who don’t CHOOSE to live in the projects. do you also tell them what block range they are allowed to live in?
“my bad”, a two syllable response to my sarcastic, multi-faceted postings directed towards simplistic lines of thought like yours is the best you can muster? like i was getting at, either make an actual contribution to the neighborhood and stop drawing lines of paranoia to reinforce stereotypes. or as i said MOVE TO SHORT PUMP.
this is not Communist Russia or the holocaust. no one is going to come to your door and whisk you away for your beliefs. other people are allowed to have divergent opinions (all the better if they are balanced in the context that they acknowledge the big picture and concrete problems that Church Hill faces… all the worse if they become one dimensional).
Trish, what kind of men were YOU around with when you had your holiday in the projects? You really ran with dawgs who enjoyed jail for the clothing and food? Seriously? Wow. The majority of young men I have worked with who have done time or have been on probation loathed being incarcerated. In all my years I have met few who really thought the system and rut-cycles were “no big deal”.
We ALL worry about vandals, crime, trash on the street, etc. We all should. That’s as obvious as knowing that putting your hand on a lit stove hurts. Making defined barriers of acceptable places to live is a little extreme… in that it implies anywhere outside of your little box is full of thugs, laziness and theives. Seriously, if you feel that way… you personally… go to the burbs and watch tv in safety. If you want to clean up the neighborhood (or shall we even say “extend” the habitable zone beyond M, 21st & 35th streets) then make a damn contribution, not just flippant one liners on a minute website. All that does is reinforce your own opinion. I’m not sure what is worse, cavalier attitudes condemning people stuck in a cycle of poverty/crime/no opportunity or the fact that people have been trapped against their will within it. Wait… I figured it out. The worse of the two is people who make sweeping generalizations about what very blocks people should or should not live within, for those assholes calling are making a choice. Growing up with nothing to back you up is NOT a choice… it’s a complex situation that needs work done slowly from within institutions by working with individuals. If it isn’t adressed, side effects may include a pack of young kids throwing bricks. So either start spending time with these very kids or GET THE FUCK OUT.
(no more responses from me, folks… i’ve gone beyond in my comments than is sensible for me to considering that at best a few hundred people privileaged enough to have a laptop will read this. i have real work to do, really. the kids need me and it’s time to go to work for the day…) (see you all in Church Hill… I’m actually not afraid to step outside my house or even out of the borders of 21st, 35th & M…)
I for one point my finger squarely at Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society.
To everybody: Do the readers of this blog (and yourself) a favor and keep your comments concise. Few people want to read seven paragraphs of your personal opinions and experiences. Thank you.
@55 hours–trust me, I did not choose to live there so your condescension about “vacations and holidays” can stop right there. And yes, believe it or not there are people in the world for whom the possibility of jail means three regular hots and a cot. Beats working. You may work with people from the projects but until you actually LIVE in one you have no idea. No, they’re not idiots–in fact they have it figured out. Why work when if you pop out a kid the government’s right there with free money and housing because of being all SAVE THE CHILDREN? Oh, and don’t forget disability.
Oh, and I’d also like to dismiss another of your stereotypes–the project I lived in? Was in eastern Kentucky. Everyone who lived there was white. But the behavior was no different than Mosby Court. It’s the atmosphere, not the race, that makes it the projects.
“Why work when if you pop out a kid the government’s right there with free money?”
You mean like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzspsovNvII&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Never happens. Pure fiction imagined by racists. EVERY dollar of our welfare system goes to deserving folks who really want to work but can’t find jobs.
(For folks who want to make welfare reform a racial issue, a majority of food stamps recipients are white last I saw. And to echo Trish’s comments, I have lived near some white ghettos and they are just as bad. It’s a problem of our lower classes of all races living in a culture where values are degrading).
JD, some topics are a little more complex than others and some of us like to have a more involved discussion with our neighbors who have differing perspectives. Feel free to chime in if you want or skip over the long comments if you don’t.
I’d rather read through a long but well written comment from someone who has an interesting point of view than waste 10 seconds reading a comment that doesn’t add anything to the discussion.
May I suggest the topic on the art gallery show for you instead? That one has lots of pictures for you and not many big words or long sentences. 😛
End welfare, then no undeserving people will get my money and we won’t have any more thugs throwing bricks.
Easy. Problem solved. Vote tea party!
Once again Alex the cowardly lion posts to infinity, secure in the knowledge that anonymous race baiting is protected by his god given constitutional right to be a overblown,bigmouth cheapshot artist. Keep up the good work you longwinded piece of crap…. .and what does your self indulgent mystery hating add to ANY conversation? Your hysteria provides all the needed info to identify your pathology. Speak up under your real name ..dont you think your neighbors deserve to know the way you feel about them ?
“Poor people have been voting democrat for over 50 years……….and they are still poor”-Charles Barkley
@Alex if I knew u I think we would be friends, we share many similar opinions. I was completely unaware of what happened on R St.. Last Sunday night. However, it is very frightening to think this happened and the police really didn’t respond in a positive manner.
To address the truth about the police showing up or not showing up I could not begin to address it. However, I can address” 55 hours” because ‘I’ have worked with inner city children for several years, and it is going to crush your dream world. However, there is a difference in the inner city youth and the youth of just ordinary poor people.
We are raising a generation of young people today with the mentality of “I’M ENTITLED” and it is not just in the inner city. Whenever I generalize, people my painting of the picture is this…there are the wealthy or upper middle class children who feel very entitled because they know mommy and daddy will pay ‘me way out of trouble’. We also have the inner city youth who feel entitled…several years ago when I started doing volunteer work with inner city youth because in my youth I was under the naive impression I could make a difference.
The first day I was in a group of young fourth graders and ask one child ‘why are you not even trying to understand how to count money’ he told me ” why do I needs to learn that the check going always be in the mail my mama said it be the only reason she had me in the first place”.
You know how I felt when this child looked at me and made this comment to me, I was livid. However, once getting over the initial shock of the answer from the child I realized he doesn’t know any better because it was the very thing he was being taught at home. You see I wanted to blame the child, but the real problem did not belong in his lap it belonged in his ineffectual mother’s lap.
If you work with inner city children for fifty-five hours a week and still have the mentality throwing more money out to good is the answer, ( I do commend you for at least sticking in there, and actually believing the crap spewed out of their mouths at you).
However, I worked with these children for several years, and it was all strictly on a volunteer basis with me. And I will be the first to admit I met some of the most precious children, and wanted to take them home to buy them preppy clothes and send them to private schools.
You wrote at least two times if not more that most of the parents of the children you work with really do care about the children. Why are they hungry toward the middle and end of every month. I asked several of the children, and was told by a lot of them ” mama sells our food to buy drugs and I don’t always get food at home”.
You know there was one child in particular I took a great deal of interest in because he had the potential of being anything he wanted ( the child was that smart). He lived in the projects, and I took him home one day ( keep in mind I was not this child’s teacher, I was strictly a volunteer). There set a ‘HUGE’ television along with an awesome stereo system, and hardly anything I’d consider furniture in the house/ apartment.
I tried to talk with the child’s mother and tell her what a gifted child she had her response to me “he’s no good, his daddy is in jail and I have to raise the good for nothing”. Report this parent to child protective services dtn. They ask did you see any signs of physical abuse bruises etc.
Well you know my answer was no… They told me we have so many more serious cases cannot you just leave this child alone. It’s always do-gooders like you who try to mess these kids up.
In reference to all of your comments, I do agree these children need guidance good role models. However, throwing more money out to bad is not the answer anymore than constantly buying a Kennedy a new car because he’s mad.
I say if the people are no better equipped to raise these children than they are then give them to people who would raise them with discipline, love and stop rewarding the mothers with more money for everyone they pop out of the oven.
There was one child that just came to mind…he had eleven brothers and sisters…his mother lived in the project on public assistance. All eleven of her children were from different men…I guess your answer to this situation is to throw more money her way to continue making the same mistake until she’s to old to procreate.
My answer to this problem is the tell her if you have anymore you have to pay for it, and until you get a job and can support your eleven children don’t look to us to give them more money.
Perhaps if there were less people hung up about gay marriage or civil unions amongst gay people. I might could take a couple of these children from their horrible conditions, and raise them myself. However, ( you will notice I am generalizing here) the hetero world is so afraid we are going to recruit these children into being gay. My response to this ( and yes I am very well aware I’ve gotten a great distance from the core subject of this blog) why do we have any gay people at all if you can simply be recruited into being gay…why weren’t all gay people recruited into being straight ( I assume most gay people if not all were raised by straight parents).
In reference to the vandalism… I work more than fifty-five hours a week to keep my business above water and try to make a good living for myself. It was never my intention to put as much money as I have invested in properties in church hill to have a bunch of unsupervised hooligans throw bricks through my windows or worse kill the hand that feeds them.
It is so ironic how I just ran across this article tonight because I had just made up my mind to give church hill one more year ( in hopes after the election it would take off again and there would be more gentrification).And yes in the event you might be wondering I am 100% capitalist ( I have no desire to have mixed income housing in church hill…you see I have an arterial flow problem from the neck-up I believe church hill could be soho or Georgetown. However, I have decided to throw in the towel and move to the U/R area. My partner and I own a house in that neighborhood as well, and I am now scared to death to remain up here alone.
Jason… i never implied throwing money at the problems disadvantaged kids have is a solution. the only solution is people working in their communities, becoming part of them (rather than shoving the weak or poor aside). I commend you for the time you spent working with kids. It’s not easy… the hypocrisy & entitlement mentality along with double standards, and sometimes literally “the things kids say” are all hard to believe. Somehow I’ve stuck it out 21 years working with inner city kids and don’t have a grey hair on my head. People hear where I work and they think I’m crazy. All I know is that as long as unsupervised, unparented, hungry kids run around in packs BECAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW ANY BETTER, I’ll do my damndest to try to help educate, inspire & keep them off the streets. believe it or not, despite the red tape, terrible administrators, and media fueled hysteria about the East End… I would not trade what I do for the world.
Buddy”little-red”Corvette, as Sartre said of Freud, you’re “a bag of wind.”
And Trish, Metallica has sucked since the 80s. Please don’t quote them when the grown ups are talking.
Hate to raise concern, but just saw a group of about 8-10 middle school age kids heading down Cedar towards from 25th to the lower 20’s with the police not far behind.
hope it isn’t a repeat.