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If there were a bakery in Church Hill…
07/19/2012 8:17 AM by John M
A reader wants to know what the community might need out of a local bakery:
I want to open a small delivery bakery next spring. Within 3 years I would like to expand the business into a small bakery. I would like to ask the residents of Church Hill what kinds of items would they like to see in a local bakery (besides bread because we will have a bread baker soon on 25th and I have no intentions of stealing his clientele)?
What hours seem to work best for most residents to visit the bakery?
And how many people in the area have some form of food allergy or dietary restriction?
Oh man, this is what I like to hear. Personally I’d enjoy stuff like brioche, croissants, danishes, bagels, muffins, doughnuts and cupcakes. 😀 Not sure about food allergies, but I know a lot of Richmonders who are gluten-free, so it might be smart to offer an option or two for them.
vegan offerings as well, would be awesome.
Thank you for coming to the community with these questions about your business.
I would love to have a place to go and get morning pastries (croissants, danish, muffins, etc) and to stop in to get desserts (brownies, fruit tarts, mini cheesecakes, etc).
What is the bread place on 25th you speak of? To be honest, I feel like there are too many rumors about potential awesome places coming to Churchill but most of them are only a pipe dream.
Isn’t a bakery about to open on the corner across from the Roosevelt?
Sub Rosa is woking on getting the space ready in the yellow building on the traffic circle at 25th/M/Jefferson. Evrim is known for his bread, I haven’t heard how much he might be branching out from there.
Sub Rosa. Evrim has been working to get it up and running. He was the one recently giving away the bricks on here.
I also read House of Homemde on Marshall is closing. I wonder what happened there.
If you offered baked goods similar to what Can Can (in Carytown) has in the mornings — mini-baguettes, croissantes, cinnamon rolls, etc.–, I would probably be a regular customer on weekends, and get fat. As for hours, for me personally I’d like relatively early hours – like opening by 7 or 7:30 am. And please make sure there’s a hitch to tie up the dog outside so we can combine morning dog walks with bakery visits!
i second vegan offerings!
If I could stop somewhere on my way to work and get a good, fresh bagel with cream cheese, I bet I’d be in there 2-3 mornings a week. I’d be worried, though, about a bakery that didn’t sell bread. I bet you and the other baker could figure out delicious repertoires of bread that don’t overlap too much. We sustain several yummy restaurants up here; I bet we could sustain two yummy bakeries. 🙂
Church Hill is about to see a flurry of places opening and closing in the next few years, this has become so obvious to me recently. There’s room for more business here…but not that much.
There is always churn until something somes in and sticks. It’s been like that since Jumpin Jays and Que Pasa opened up almost 10 years ago, maybe longer. There used be 2 bakeries on 25th Street not that long ago, and a flower shop too. The OMG space has been a couple of things, right? And what about that ice cream store that Proper Pie is going into?
The good places pull enough people from outside the immediate neighborhood to make a go of it. It sounds like Anthony’s is a great improvement on Buffington’s, the Hill Cafe and Patrick Henry’s have been strong for years, the Roosevelt looks to be doing great.
I say compete away. Lay out the best business plan you can and let the best bakery win, but if not, maybe you could sell some of his bread and vice versa.
By the way, since Louisianna Flair closed, there has been a distinct shortage of beignets in this town.
How about some smaller sweets and pastries. Like at Jean Jacques, they offer a wide variety of small cookies and such, I love that I can sort of make my own dessert tray.
And reasonable prices?? Buzzy’s I feel, is quite the rip off when it comes to some of their prices!!!
Gluten free options would be awesome 🙂
To be it has to have at “least” doughnuts in various varieties but my favorite are the yeast glazed doughnuts.
Fresh in the morning to grab some for work and maybe again in the afternoon for the evening crowds.
Funny you should now mention a bakery after I said I had expected House of Homemade to be one (27th and Marshall).
get in touch when you are ready to get delivery rolling…we are Richmond’s delivery experts!
i would also love to have a place that had some gluten free and vegan options!
Italian style pastries would be awesome!
I’d love a donut shop. While Country Style is probably the best donut I’ve ever tasted, it would be nice to have a good place to get fresh donuts that didn’t require driving.
I second the calls from some of the other posters for a bakery to include bread though. Even if it’s just making a deal with Sub Rosa to carry a few of their breads in your store, I’d be confused if I went in a bakery that didn’t sell bread. Church Hill market is probably too small for micro-segmenting your offerings.
My dream would be to have a store that carried Billy Bread, Flour Garden bread, Sub Rosa bread, Country Style donuts and Jean Jacques Bakery’s baked goods all in one convenient location and was open decent hours.
it is all Eric’s idea….
Vegan, sweet & savory items, baguettes, bagels, croissants, Danish, cupcakes, focaccia bread, gluten free
Open by at least 7 am would be awesome!!!!! Then I could swing by before work and take tasty treats to co-workers!
Wouldn’t it be great if the local restaurants that are doing well would use a local bakery for their dinner rolls, specialty breads and pastries? As the dining choices improve in the East End it would help a bakery succeed if they sourced their products locally. It would also be good advertising if the bakery’s customers liked what they got in the restaurant. Just a thought.
Little fresh baked pies! Serves one. A different assortment each day. Or a certain flavor every day. Peanut pie. Blackberry pie. Lemon mojito pie. Banana pie. Cranberry pie. Oatmeal raisin pie. ….okay I’ll stop.
I went by House of Homemade several times during normal business hours….and all but one time they were closed. After about the third time of disappointment, I gave up going.
Open early, offer coffee, be consistent with your hours (see House of Homade comment above), and keep your alternative items (vegan,gluten-free) to no more than 15 percent of what you offer. Appeal to the majority. And reasonable prices of course. No one wants to pay two dollars for a cookie. Good luck.
It would be wonderful if we had a bakery that could supply our local restaurants with fresh desserts (just read in another post that someone got what they thought was a frozen Costco tiramisu from Anthony’s), a bread company that could supply fresh bread, and then these places could also supply the general population lots of good options. I do think that Sub Rosa and this proposed bakery need to work with The Hill Cafe, Roosevelt’s, Captain Buzzy’s, the upcoming Dutch and Co. and Johnson’s Southern Comfort, and the new Anthony’s to help each other out. They should all look to offer locally produced coffee, desserts, beer, etc., and I think they should all plug each other when they do it. Selling Church Hill’s abundance sells your own establishment and builds a network. There are still lots of people in the Richmond area that won’t cross the river and are afraid to come downtown. We all have to work to make Church Hill a destination (crime, cleanliness, and get rid of those damn panhandlers at the interstate exits). Then they can spend their money here and go back home. :).
Rachel’s comment is spot on. The alternative stuff has a place but too many places go overboard on it. This market isn’t big enough yet that someone can make a living selling only vegan gluten-free tofu bread. Start basic, do it well and be flexible.
donuts!
I’d like to see baguettes or some sort of crusty chewy bread that could make a quick spaghetti dinner feel more special. We used to get Flour Garden baguettes from House of Homemade pretty often, and now that they are closing, we can’t wait for either your business or Sub Rosa to start filling that need! I don’t think you should worry too much about competing with Sub Rosa, since by that logic there is almost nothing you could make. (Buzzy’s makes great cakes and cookies, Proper Pie will some have the pie genre covered, etc…)
I’d also like to see some high quality hamburger/sandwich rolls that are not too big for a typical hamburger, especially onion or garlic rolls. (I hate how much extra bread is left around the edges of a burger with typical jumbo-size supermarket rolls!)
My last request would be homemade soft pretzels! I’m not aware of any bakery in Richmond that makes these, so maybe that could be a good niche.
I couldn’t agree more with Rachel’s comment above. Keep the alternative items at a minimum. Appeal to the majority.
House of Homemade seemed like a strange place to me. And I really tried to like it. It just seemed like an odd assortment of random things on the menu that just wasn’t very appealing. I heard the same comment from many neighbors.
And ‘It Must Be Heaven’ had wonderful ice-cream and the best crab soup ever…but there was something very odd about getting ice-cream from a place that smelled like seafood. Not to mention the complete lack of ambiance or character to the place.
So my suggestions: Have a selection that appeals to the majority, keep consistant hours, and hire an Interior Designer to create a welcoming space.
We look forward to it!
@ Rachel (and others who agree with her comment) I am the baker to pose this question and actually all of my current recipes are gluten free and I don’t tell people because for some reason people are so turned off by the knowledge of something being gluten free. Weird. It tickles me how many people come back to me and say “That was the best chocolate cake I’ve ever eaten in my life!” and then I say “Great! It’s also gluten free.” and their faces drop in shock and dismay (smh) What is that all about? Do you anticipate gluten free will taste terrible? I just filled an order for some friends from New York and it wasn’t until they came in to pick up the cupcakes, where I had extras waiting so they could taste them that I mentioned, “Oh, by the way, all of the products are local and it’s gluten free.” Their eyes were as WIDE as the cupcake! LOL Really, gluten free is not as bad as you think and I have been wondering whether or not I should tell people. Judging from this post…it’s looking like not. People have to taste it first I guess becuase you wouldn’t know otherwise. Bread on the other hand is a whole other ball game. Nevertheless if you like the Flour Garden bread, I can’t say all of it but alot of it is vegan and THAT bread is the BOMB!!! 🙂 See, it’s not that bad for it to be good for you. Still I will take into great consideration all of the advice provided. Thanks. Peace.
Secret baker, you’re already off to a good start on one dimension – listening to your marketplace and asking for inputs before starting. Its great if you can pull off the gluten free goods and make it work. I’d really suggest starting with what the community wants as your target and if you can do it well, you’ve got a good shot. If you start with the niches, it gets dangerous because you can alienate people. If you can make a good loaf of bread (or pastry or whatever), a lot of people will buy it. If you make a good loaf of vegan bread that the masses don’t like as much as they like another bread, you’ll sell to a small sliver of the population. Be honest with yourself and make sure your product stacks up against the best overall. If it does, the fact that it’s gluten free or vegan or whatever is just gravy.
By the way, I suspect you know a lot of this but if you want a list of top selling SKUs in a typical bakery, I’d be glad to pass along to you. I was a bakery buyer for Richfood for a number of years and can tell you what the top selling items and brands were if you’d like to benchmark against them. Email me at sox45fan@gmail.com if you’d be interested.
Two things really need to be emphasized. FIrst I am dismayed that you think hiding that your food is Gluten free is ok in any way. Hate to tell you but I fancy having the protein in tack and natural whole grains. To think that you would not disclose this to the consumer and make choices on their behalf is quite rude.
Secound, the people in this board do not represent the socioeconomic makeup of church hill. Church hill is lower income with a few pockets of DINKS. If their are not basic donut, cookie, or other standard options at reasonable prices (2 donuts for $1) than the business will die like so many others. The “House of Homade” and “It must be Heaven” is a good example. The prices were as if the shops were located in the restwend were people are not on foodstamps or make less than $20K a year.
So yes a bakery would be nice but dont hide what your ingredients are, have products that the commuity wants (this is not a wine and cheese neighborhood regadless of how much the DINKS want it to be), and price things so that people can afford them (do you know how many kids that live go to Chimborazo are Elementary are on free and reduced lunch?).
i work at a school and we need a place where we can pick up doughnuts and doughnuts holes and cookies
@ Tools In The Box
I greatly appreciate your passion for Church Hill but as an 11 year resident a former teacher of Woodville Elementary, and a childcare provider for some of the children that attend Chimborazo I am very aware of the economic makeup of this community. I apologize for my ignorance but I haven’t the slightest idea what a DINK is and I hope it is not derogatory as I have just typed it, but if it means what I think it means…..I am their neighbor and friend and probably a medium between them and the lower income community. Though passionate as you are I would prefer to address people in understandable terms if you don’t mind 🙂 Thanks. Anyway, I am glad to hear you say not informing the community about the ingredients would be harmful. Though most patrons without food allergies do not inquire about the ingredients of a particular item it is good to hear some people would prefer to know, so thank you for your comment. Ironically baking in my style does not cause the prices to skyrocket though they aren’t cheap and more importantly I think we should provide healthy food options to everyone regardless of economic level, that’s how you support healthy eating habits instead of making the cheap stuff from junk. I refuse.This is the reason I wanted to pose the question to the community to make sure I am providing what everyone needs and desires.
Secret Baker, have you ever heard of Paul’s Bakery in Fredericksburg? It’s a small bakery, family owned and operated, that has been in business for many many years.
Their donuts are amazing. I have no clue what’s involved in making a donut, but they do it right. If you’re ever in that area, swing by and grab a few. They’re amazing! If you could have donuts that good, you’d have a line out of the door…just like they do, every day of the week.
Can’t wait for you to open! I’m sure it’ll be delicious!
DINK= Double Income No Kids, coined shortly after YUP(py)= young, upwardly mobile professional. Not a sweet eater personally, my kids would love it, but big doughy pretzel with salt is right up my alley!
Secret Baker… please tell us the reasoning behind Gluten Free to begin with? We have been living with bread products for centuries with it so why now a push to remove it?
I guess the stigma lies in the fact that anything “reduced” or “removed” usually turns out bland, lacking buttery richness and having an odd texture.
Eric
@ yum!
I will make plans to visit this weekend! Thank you!
@ John Thanks for the clarification 🙂
It seems like bagels, doughnuts, pretzels and coffee are resoundingly popular breakfast items (except pretzels, maybe thats later in the day)…..Good thing I love and know how to make them all 🙂 Especially BAGELS!!!….Sorry I got excited LOL Thanks again.
If you truly do know how to make bagels the NY-way, that would be an awesome thing to have in Church Hill… I know I’d probably eat 2-3 bagels every week if it were convenient. The best bagels in Richmond that I know of come from Panera, and that is a sad, sad thing– both because I prefer local food shops, and because Panera’s bagels aren’t even that good.
(If I’m mistaken, someone please let me know!)
RE: Mrs. Alex- actually they have great bagels at Cupertino’s bagels in the West End.I think a few coffee shops in Richmond carry their product.
Sorry to interrupt the discussion. I am sure Secret Baker’s bagels are fantastic as well!
Good luck!
If the best bagels in Richmond aren’t even really in Richmond, it appears that may be a wide open market. Maybe something on 25th where you’d get a lot of drive-by traffic in the mornings and it’s easily accessible to River Lofts too? And Secret Baker does have a good ring for a business name…
Would bagels all be gluten free also or would you do them normally?
@ 41, a vast swath of the population is now gluten-intolerant. Ask anyone who is, and they will tell you how they double-over in abdominal pain whenever they’ve eaten too much.
Gluten is actually a protein that has been bio-genetically boosted into the wheat that goes into the flour that makes all those soft doughy baked goods that we all liked as kids (and many of us still can eat.)
The bread from centuries past didn’t have as much gluten–that’s because it took centuries to engineer the wheat to have more gluten than mother nature originally intended. People in the 1600’s didn’t have bread that tasted like Wonder.
If you can tolerate wheat-based foods with gluten, consider yourself fortunate. You always have a choice. Many people do not–unless they want to spend the next couple of days feeling very, very sick.
I don’t know what are you good at.
#46… OK, why the change in people becoming intolerant mainly in the past few years? I am not and still love the soft doughy breads… absolutely hate dry mealy ones.
Bagels would be good. We use to get the Einstein ones at work along with the flavored cream cheese.
But would still like to see some raised yeast doughnuts like Krispy Kreme.
@ Eric
I’m glad you asked this question and my answer may surprise you. I’ve actually been baking for more than a decade now and I used wheat until about four months ago. I used to be one of those people who said “Oh God, here comes ‘those’ people with their special food.” Not because I didn’t like the people but because I believe it is not food that is harming us but rather the way in which we are harvesting and processing it….I still believe that, but I’m getting there. Ironically a friend of mine is gluten free (she has been diagnosed with celiacs disease) and hates that I work in a bakery and she can’t eat anything I make. So I tried ‘something’ and it turned out beautifully….so I tried it again and again and again and it was replicable! Yay! Then I did a detox for a month where I couldn’t eat meat, wheat, or dairy…….I realized there is wheat in eveything even beer and I wanted to eat! So I converted a few of my sweet and savory recipes to gluten free and tah-dah!! It worked! Then I found out that wheat is now being genetically modified….another reason for me to put the flour away. Then I studied further and found out that cake flour produces a lighter, moister cake because it is low in gluten….so naturally if it’s gluten free…You guessed it! The cake is so tender it melts against the fork before it reaches your lips! Yum! Yum! Yum!….(clearing throat) Pardon me. Nevertheless it produced the most remarkable chocolate, vanilla and strawberry cakes I’ve ever made then I moved on to a carrot, a banana, a pie crust, etc.!!! It’s tender and good for you so I thought to myself “Why not just have a completely gluten free kitchen!” Naturally I was excited but it appears some customers would be suspicious, and rightfully so. When I sell chocolate cake at my current job and I put on the sign “gluten free” NO ONE buys them…or rather maybe two people. But one day I just make a chocolate cake and I was icing it when a customer came in and asked if she could buy a piece. I said sure! She bought it, sat down and ate it and the next day she had told people and I had three people come in for chocolate cake. It was gone withing two days. I have a house full of men across the street from me that I try recipes out on. They sat on my porch and consumed gluten free cupcakes and homemade icecream until there hearts were content. When I told them they were gluten free they nearly had heart attacks! It has just been an amazing discovery!!! Still I will not negate the fact that the community is saying “I WANT WHEAT!” 🙂
So, I’ll give you wheat 🙂 Besides bagels and doughnuts need gluten to produce the semi-chewy texture. So I’m all ears community 🙂 I’m researching my hips off to make sure I give you what you want so talk to me 🙂
By the way @ tom c I excel in pound cake, chocolate cake, cheesecakes, strawberry cake, rolls, cinnamon buns, pecan pie, apple pie, caramels and fondant decorations.
I am really good at other things as well but those are the things that I have my own recipes for that are more than 7 years old, so tried and true. I have 3 years of bagel and doughnut experience and a few other tricks up my sleeve 🙂
Thanks for the excellent post about “why”. Funny, I always thought that bakery cakes were made with cake flour? Learn something new every day. But I am looking forward to your store opening… location decided yet? The House of Homemade site?
Great suggestion #50! The House of Homemade site would be perfect! It’d be a shame to see a recently renovated commercial property sit vacant. 27th street would love to have you there!
Yes, the House of Homemade basically ran themselves out of business by having quirky offerings, no coffee, and too much alike of what was sold a block away at Buzzy’s. If you have a unique business there I am sure it would do much better and complement the upcoming restaurant across the street (Dutch & Co.) – and possibly make a deal selling bread and dinner rolls to them?
And yes, it would be a shame to let the building sit empty for years to come.
House of Homemade (the site, not the business) already has a buyer and it’s a baker but not me 🙂 I’m waiting to fnd out what they will be serving. So there may be a few of us baking in Church Hill soon 🙂
@ Secret Baker – though sorry it won’t be you, yay that someone is already going into HOH. I was concerned it would sit vacant.