RECENT COMMENTS
I’m not so sure about these new roundabouts
I’m a huge fan of the roundabouts at 25th/M Street and 25th/Nine Mile/Fairmount. As a driver, pedestrian, and cyclist, I’m comfortable at these intersections. The roundabouts seem intuitive to most folks, and are an obvious upgrade on the traffic lights that used to be in place.
With that said, I’m not so sure about the work on Jefferson Avenue.
There are three new traffic diverting circles under construction on Jefferson Avenue. There are 2 smaller ones at the intersections with 23rd and 24th Streets, and a larger one at the 5-way intersection by Alamo BBQ.
The big circle is the one that raises the most concern for me, but the small one at 24th has issues, too.
The detail that makes the circles by The Roosevelt and the Family Dollar really work are the lane dividers approaching the circles. There is a physical indicator to the driver where they are supposed to be go. The dividers also serve as islands for pedestrians.
The new work relies on lots of stripy paint and DO NOT ENTER signs. This leaves a lot of room for driver confusion, doesn’t do anything for pedestrians, and kind of looks terrible.
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You are spot on with the issues of the large roundabout. The apparent flaw in its design which is most troublesome is the flow of traffic traveling east on Jefferson. Since it appears to the drivers to be a straight path they assume to have the right-of-way and do not yield to other vehicles already in the circle. There are daily close calls and my guess is there will be many accidents as a result, not to mention the increase in noise from horns. It is disappointing that shortcuts were taken with these roundabouts.
What CHPN said. The Jefferson/ Clay st. Intersection needs to take cues from the 9 mile/ 25th st roundabout. It needs to have pedestrian islands. This new construction is not much of an improvement. I had a car enter the roundabout the wrong way both arriving and leaving the shop yesterday.
I agree – it’s a freaking mess. I can’t imagine trying to get through there on foot and it’s very hard to negotiate by car or bike. It is a hazard rather than a help.
A bit late now though, don’t you think?
I could not agree more with what is written here. Good idea; terrible, terrible execution. I understand that they are not finished, but the things that are needed do not appear to be coming. I drive through these circles a minimum of four times per day, and I have already seen a number of near-accidents, dangerous conditions for cyclists, confusion about right-of-way, and even cars taking a path so wrong that it’s comical, the wrong way around the circle or entering from the wrong way on streets that are now one way only. The biggest culprit here is failing to address the “soul” of what a roundabout should be, by way of raised beds, lane narrowing, pavement surface change, and making people drive in a damn circle instead of being able to whizz straight through. The roundabout plan delivered as part of the “Greening America’s Capitals” proposal addressed all of these elements, and would provide a terrific gateway into the neighborhood for those not traveling straight up Broad. Unfortunately, this current iteration falls flat on its face in execution, and looks terrible while doing it. Perhaps we can hope that the city is holding out on the more expensive raised beds and sidewalk and paving changes until the federal grant money comes through. Would be nice to know.
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Hi folks. Several of your neighbors have been working really hard to transform Jefferson Avenue. Is it perfect now? Maybe not, but, can we call it a step in the right direction? Slowing vehicular speeds on Jeffersin Ave and getting rid of one of the longest stop lights in RVA.
Think of it as an interim step toward the EPA plan that was developed this past summer with input from your neighbors.
That plan is the super-version of what Jefferson Avenue could look like with even more pedestrian/cycling infrastructure, shade trees, mini-parks and stormwater management.
This current 2015 traffic calming project started about 2 years ago, when we realized that the intersection at the Alamo wasn’t quite cutting it.
With our city budget in lockdown, a limited amount of federal highway funds were available and got us where we are today on Jefferson Avenue.
There is a lot of landscaping that should be planted any day now, and that should help with aesthetics and functionality.
When we have our next planning meeting with city staff and begin the process of lobbying for state/federal funds to continue the build-out, I hope you all will join us. Your experience in this “laboratory” will be invaluable–and your desire/help in making it even better will get us there.
Comments on previous posts have complained about the high price tag of roundabouts such as 25th and Nine Mile. Well here you have it folks, roundabouts on the cheap.
I hope it is just an interim step and will improve with the execution of the EPA plan. However it has not decreased speeds of traffic traveling east on Jefferson. I’m afraid the intersection may be more dangerous now than it was with the traffic light. I’ve been watching that intersection for over 5 years from my front porch and I have genuine concern.
Went through them all in the dark last night for the first time, and it was tough. Better lighting in those areas would be a start
@17
No, Ms. Odell, we cannot call it a step in the right direction. A step in the right direction does not reduce safety. A step in the right directions does not create a new situation that is (stunningly) worse than the one that previously existed. The city has (quelle suprise) botched this horribly with no indication that they plan to finish (or redo) the job properly. That is a step backward by any measure.
One additional safety problem no else has mentioned is that the city needs to reconfigure street parking by these circles. People are parking too close to the exits from the circles making it a tight fit to proceed. My little car won’t have a problem. A bus or a delivery truck will.
At least the traffic lights offered a short break in traffic for pedestrians trying to make it across Jefferson.
yea it’s kind of a mess. coming east on Jefferson, the round about doesn’t even seem like something that drivers should participate in (because it is much further south, not in front of Jefferson). and i’ve seen many people just turn left in front of it off of Marshall, instead of following the signage leading them right, around the circle/roundabout/whatever. there wouldn’t need to be so much signage if it was executed properly.
According to the urban/traffic planners, the trees and additional vegetation soon-to-be-planted for each of the smaller circles and the large oval at Alamo/Cyclus will create a visual obstruction (tall/vertical) that will further slow vehicular traffic.
For bikers, I feel ya, b/c I bike to work downtown most days and all around Church/Union Hill. Bike sharrows are what we have for now–and in the future, we hope to have dedicated bike lanes.
We are all gonna need to work together to corral the money needed to build the next phase of Jefferson Ave. Federal and state funds are out there, we just have to work in a collaborative manner with city staff and elected officials get em.
Way to take a road (Leigh St.) that’s 2-way, practically uninterrupted for 5 miles all the way to Scotts Addition and impeding it with no discernible improvement in safety by make it one-way for ONE BLOCK (between 24th and Jefferson). Bikes go straight through there anyway, btw.
Perhaps we should have “corral[ed] the money” first. Just sayin’.
John M. in the photo at the top of your story, it looks to me as if the car on the right is going the wrong way – or am I misinterpreting the photo? That black sedan, shouldn’t it be on the other side of the circle? Looks to me as if it’s facing on coming traffic if there were any.
@crd – yep. Didn’t even have to wait for that to happen, I’d just arrived to take photos
I know that no one will take this comment seriously as thankfully this is in reference to services that individually we rarely need but, this is a real issue for emergency responders as well. Especially fire trucks. As many of these traffic circles (not the roundabouts) do nothing to slow down civilian passenger vehicles but severely delays larger fire trucks. Wasn’t too much of an issue when just a few popped up on Marshall. But now, Marshall, Chimbo, “S”, Jefferson, and I suspect more to come. Especially a problem when people park to close to them (disclaimer I am not referring to the legit roundabouts on 25th street. Though these slow emergency responders at least you are getting a return for this in that they do help civilian traffic, peds, and cyclist.) Oh and wait till you see the one at 23rd and Fairfield. Its not a good thing when the fire truck that is dispatched to your emergency encounters 5 of these in 1 trip….
@31 thanks John, that’s incredibly stupid of that driver. I can’t believe they didn’t know they were going the wrong way. I haven’t driven through this intersection yet, but can clearly see it’s going to have accidents.
@33 Someone else just said something about that to me on the phone, we were discussing this roundabout and he said not only what you did, but that there are an awful of people who no longer seem to think they should stop for ambulances, they just keep on going.
It’s important to zoom out and look comprehensively at what ideas dictated the changes to Jefferson in the first place. It’s a complicated mix of traffic calming and ped/bike safety which are unfortunately approached from very different angles at the city level. The EPA study addressed both vehicular and ped/bike safety more directly in addition to environmental issues associated with storm water runoff. That study represents a next step that will help to make sense out of what has currently been built. It’s going to be really important for people to take criticism like what is noted on this post and use it to build on what has been done – as opposed to simply saying that it doesn’t work and giving up. If we can respond constructively it’s possible that the work will continue until we have a reasonable solution. If not, the small amount of money that goes toward improving infrastructure will go somewhere else.
This is a freakin’ mess! The 5-way is totally confusing and an accident waiting to happen now, especially with horrible drivers who have no clue about right of ways. And having to go around your ass to get to your thumb when traveling Clay Street westward to go to Mechanicsville – zigzagging through the narrow side streets.
ugh. I love roundabouts. I haven’t tried driving on Jefferson since they’ve been put in, but I have tried to cross Jefferson to Union Market on foot. And there’s still no crosswalk. At the busiest pedestrian corner on Jefferson. That was the only/biggest problem with Jefferson in my opinion and nothing was done to address it. Engineers: please walk around. Much hate.
And I still want to complain about the cop that seemingly intentional drove towards me and sped up as I tried to cross Jefferson there. More hate.
I have just read the comments regarding Jefferson Ave. As always, I am amazed at the passion we all feel for ensuring that this neighborhood remains the perfect place to call “home”.
I am also confident the City folks responsible for implementing the Jefferson Ave project are equally committed to creating
a street that is safe for pedestrians, bikers, and cars, as well as something of beauty.
I do hope that all of you will continue monitoring Jefferson Ave for the next couple of months (as the City plans to do), compile your thoughts and ideas and then be willing to share them with the city and each other in a constructive manner. We can make this work……but, realistically, not by tomorrow. However, next week the landscaping will go in!
Will, in his comment, spoke about the EPA plan. If you did not participate in that process last summer and would like to see that plan, please let me know. I have a complete copy
We drove past the two roundabouts near Union Market tonight and they appear to be too small and don’t force the slower speeds and diversion in path necessary for them to work correctly. The ones built on Marshall during the Tom Flynn era also have this design flaw and from my conversations with him then – he intended them that way to facilitate through vehicles, which ignores the other part of the equation, slowing cars for safety.
I really don’t like the mini-roundabouts where it isn’t clear who has the right of way, and one of the new traffic circles seems to have the same problem. On M street between Jefferson and 35th, for example, traffic crossing M on the numbered streets encounter a yield sign while cars crossing the numbered streets only encounter a yellow diamond. Presumably traffic crossing the numbered streets on M should receive priority per the signage, but it is unclear if the mini-roundabouts actually function as roundabouts. As such, in the event that someone is turning left from M street to one of the numbered cross streets, it is unclear if traffic continuing down M street in the other direction should yield to the other vehicle (at least, if it reaches the intersection first) or if the turning vehicle should yield to oncoming traffic.
In any event, I routinely see folks stop/yield when entering the M street intersections from the numbered streets, but nonetheless pull out in front of oncoming traffic and nearly cause accidents because the driver reasonably expects the oncoming driver to stop or yield as well, as they got to the mini-roundabout first and are unaware that the traffic travelling down M is not expected to stop.
Feel free to throw DMV literature at me, but only if you understand the scenarios I’m describing!
I am just calling it the Circle of Death.
My ultimate problem with sentiments expressed by @17 and @39 is those sentiments are why we have the problem in the first place. Too many in Richmond want to look at city government incompetence and call it a first step or how if we keep providing ideas this will ultimately work.
This is a traffic circle, not brain surgery. It should have been done right, it should have been safe and it should be finished properly THE FIRST TIME. Nothjng here required a civil engineering breakthrough. It is not as if the City were inventing roundabouts or even building its first. This is a basic task. It goes to the basic competency of our city government to provide basic services in a correct and efficient manner. I love Richmond but if it has one overarching problem with government it is a total lack of accountability due to the Stockholm syndrome too many Richmonders demonstrate in being OK with inadequate performance rather than demanding City leaders get things done, get them done right, and get them done cost-efficiently. The fact that some believe the City deserves a cookie for their work to this point is stunning to me. I will be writing to both Dr. Newbille and the administration calling for them to redo this work to make it safer. I hope some of you will do similarly.
Wasted breath……. but why not have used the limited money to do just one of them correctly?
@44 you have some valid points.
Before someone gets killed, a sense of urgency for putting some signage in place that gives people direction on what to do? some cones? The placement of the circles, the parking of cars too close and so forth do not make it easy for people to know what they are to do.
Frustratingly using all other alternative routes.
I love the roundabouts, especially since they have been landscaped. It will take a while to adjust to the change in traffic patterns, but I think we are on the way to safer, greener Jefferson Avenue. Thanks to those who stepped up to make it happen. How soon we forget just how miserable and unsafe Jefferson Avenue was prior to this change.
I drove through these today and they are much better with the landscaping and new signage.
It’s been 18 months, and I stand by this. Jefferson Ave is less safe for pedestrians than it was before. The big circle at Alamo needs the pedestrian islands.
I agree, John. As a pedestrian, I was almost killed the last time I crossed. It is a big mess. I will never attempt to cross at that intersection again and will only trust a STOP LIGHT to get the cars to stop.