RECENT COMMENTS
a waste of manpower and focus
There are few constant complaints in certain areas around here — loitering, public drinking, prostitution, a few drug corners here and there, gun violence. I can see the prosties and dealers from my front porch or walking to school on any given day. One of the police responses to these complaints is that they only have so many guys that they can put on the street a given time. With that in mind: I got a ticket this morning on Venable for having an expired inspection sticker, and it took 2 officers to do it. THIS is the crime that they can find on Venable? I feel safer already…
I’ve got the forum here and I’ve call this for the bullshit that it is. There is plenty of real police work to be done around here; nitpicky traffic violations are not it.
As I recall, the residents on Venable circulated a petition asking for stepped up enforcment of/compliance with certain traffic related laws…guess they got what they asked for?
Funny you should post this. On my way to work this morning I saw you pulled over on Venable. Not only were you pulled by two offficers but at the time I was stopped at the light I saw four more officers pass you by heading west on Venable. I do believe that officers need to enforce traffic violations but at the same time Church Hill/ Union Hill is abuzz with some unsettling activity. I am not questioning the officers priorities I am just hoping that Church Hill isn’t taking a turn for the worse during this time of recession.
Sorry for the bad experience…it sucks when it hits home! Once the anger and frustration subsides, do you really think they should ignore expired tags or inspection stickers? What message would that send for enforcing safety standards and vehicle registrations?
It seems that enforcement of ALL laws really need to be stepped up in the area. Has anyone challenged the police in the area and asked for accountability? Why are they NOT responding to what you are seeing? Maybe these complaints need to go higher up the chain than simply the 1st precinct. The police really need to have some answers regarding why they don’t have the manpower to address these blatant issues. Use this forum to demand accountability from them.
There is a move to slow traffic speed on Venable Street, calling for more speed limit signs, and 4-way stops at Venable&21st, Venable&Jasmine, and Venable&Tulip. Copies of the petition were up at Jumin’J’s and Captian Buzzy’s last fall.
I think that they should be busy catching the real criminals.
On a forgotten inspection, a warning should suffice. Nobody is going to get shot or robbed because of a past due inspection.
Routine traffic stops, especially expired tags are a fantastic tool to stop crime in a neighborhood.
It provides irrefutable probable cause to stop the car, run the plates, question the driver, and look inside the vehicle. In an area that has drug dealers and prostitution, they want to stop every vehicle they can.
How many times have you heard on the news that “a routine traffic stop” led to an arrest for a more heinous crime?
other mike, I get that, but fairly quickly it is apparent that I am not a drug dealer and have no prostitutes in my truck. At that point, a neighborly warning would do the job.
John:
To be fair then, you are angrier about the ticket than the stop.
I don’t say this to be argumentative at all. I agree that police should give a warning for expired tags, inspections, and any other non-moving violations.
Exactly.
John M, you have lots of company w/ your POV. You’re right, a warning should have sufficed.
Initially, when I read your report, I thought, ” maybe those cops are like so many others who say ‘so what if we catch one drug dealer at that corner…two more will be there next week to take his place.’ They pulled you over and ticketed you because your incident was a guaranteed success. Simple work with known results. You’ll pay the ticket and respond promptly. Your crime was simple black and white, requiring no messy investigation or prosecution…easy work. Job done.”
But after a moment of reflection, it occurred to me that maybe you were pulled over because your car fit a profile of a dealer/user. The officers may have used your expired sticker as a reason to pull you, thinking there might have been more going on with you/your vehicle. Did the cops know you? Lots of new man and women are reportedly joining the 1st precinct. these days.
Expired tags are often cited and then drugs/weapons found in the car, or the driver has outstanding warrants which lead to an arrest.
This is a tough call…you’re right to be frustrated and pissed off. Call the ticket another right of passage in the hood (we know you’ve already experienced many.)
Sorry, bro.
Sorry for the ticket, John. However, I agree with other mike. Many fugitives are caught because of traffic offenses.
Also, the hour that you were stopped is not prime time for criminals, so I don’t think they were ignoring an in-progress crime to issue you a ticket. They probably have just stepped up traffic enforcement in response to complaints stemming from the school bus accident.
I have gotten a ticket for the same thing, and although it sucks, that’s just the way things go. It won’t affect your driving record, so it’s not that bad.
Sorry, John, but I have to agree with the comments about this being a great reason to stop somebody and see what else they may be up to. And, if you accept that, then it is a perfectly reasonable “use of manpower and focus.” And, if you are saying that you shouldn’t have gotten a ticket for it because it is readily apparent that you aren’t a drug dealer then I would ask you “on what basis cops should make those judgments?” They gave you a ticket because they had to or they run the risk of appearing to favor certain people over others. Getting ticketed sucks, I agree. But, in my opinion, you should be annoyed more with yourself than the cops for letting the inspection lapse (not casting stones … we’ve all done it).
John:
If you have the time, go to court on this one. As long as you have had the car inspected the judge will usually waive the fine.
Been there, done that…
police will use the excuse to pull you and investigate, but then will issue a friendly written warning (not a ticket; no fine, no need to show up anywhere) if it is determined that it hadn’t occurred to you that your tag is expired. I’ve even known such warnings to be given in cases related to speeding.
In other states:
Yeah, I used to get warnings when I was in my twenties. Now that I’m older, it never happens anymore.
About 12 years ago I was stopped on 28th at Marshall at the stop sign for having an expired city sticker. About three minutes later 4 other cop cars arrived. It was probably about 9 at night.
When I complained to the officer who was ticketing me about why there were 5 cop cars there for my minor infraction when there is never any of them around for all the other things that I called them for, he threatened to take me to jail for being unruly. (I know, some of you probably wish he had, and left me there). And, no, I hadn’t been drinking.
I am a supporter of the officers in our city, and I try to get to know all of our precinct folks (which is hard when they come and go like a revolving door), but really!
By the way, on my ticket, my physical description was wrong. It said that I had black hair and brown eyes, and I have brown hair and blue eyes. I guess the cop didn’t bother to look at my license when I gave it to him.
Just a note to tell you John, that I can relate.
John, my sympathies. Last time I got ticketed was also on Venable, heading to work at 3 a.m. However, there was only one cop at my stop, despite the time and the fact that when he ran my plates the DMV info was cross-referenced with my ‘concealed’ permit.
archie bunker – well said
Wouldn’t these comments be better directed at someone in charge of the officers on the hill and not to a neighborhood blog? . . . talk about a waste of manpower and focus.
I’ve spoken to folks at the precinct.
Folks in the media read what gets written here and I’ve got a sense that folks in different areas of the local government do as well from things that I’ve been told and the different email addresses that are on the subscription list. Posting/commenting here is not pissing into the wind as far as all that goes.
Well I wasn’t going to respond, but since your posting/commenting here is not just pissing in the wind, I feel compelled to share my thoughts.
Eh, I just deleted all of my snarky comments and will simply leave it at this: for all of the RPD and press that are reading this: Thumbs up to RPD for doing your job and thank you for your vigilence. I would hate to think that the only people that get ticketed on the ones that don’t pass neighborhood muster. Thank you again.
Verily the streets are safe tonight!
Again, this is from the past – say 7 years ago and back to about 15 years, but almost every time we had a cop come to our house for a break-in, car theft, property theft, gunshots in the house, neighborhood disturbance, one of them would say to Jim and I “Why don’t you move?” “What are you doing living up here?” “That’s why I live in the burbs.”
I’m glad to say that the attitude among most cops up here has changed dramatically. That’s not to say that I didn’t support the cops back then and they didn’t support the neighborhood, but I do think that there has been an improved shift in how the police view the neighborhood or are trained to deal with the neighborhood.
“Verily the streets are safe tonight!”
Yea – but are they cleared of drug dealers and prossies?! Or just drivers, with expired stickers or other driving offenses?! I was not thinking of the reasons why folks got stopped when I started reading this, but after reading it all day, I do agree with traffic stops…just wondering, why can’t the same police put the same energy into ridding the ‘hood of some of the other problems?
John, take it to court please, if you can spare the time. I seem to agree with ‘other mike’ a lot.
And to anyone from outside the ‘hood who is reading – I think the argument here is, if the police have the time and manpower to do this then they can also spare some time and manpower to clear open air drug areas and prossie activity.
I’m remembering something that happened a long time ago, the situation in D.C. when the cops herded up a load of hookers, put them in a paddy wagon, and dropped them at the Virginia end of the 14th Street bridge….a long walk back on a cold winter night…. perhaps a similar herding, including geese to herd them, could happen here except across the MLK bridge? Just a suggestion….
Just curious, but how long had the inspection sticker been expired? and how much was the ticket?
What is your opinion on this new sector policing? Do you guys think that it really is working?
I always find it very effective to have my inspection expire around November. The falling leaves have a way of artfully arranging themselves around my sticker in such a way as to conceal the month. Only works if you don’t clean up your car regularly, though…
Let me distill this whole blog into what I think amounts to racketeering in this town: The taxing, ticketing and towing of cars. It’s a source of revenue and an easy one. Why should they catch and release petty criminals, when they can just shoot fish in a barrel?
Many people here argue about manpower in the police department but it does take more than one officer to safely make a traffic stop. Stopping a vehicle is one of the most dangerous things an officer does. Many officers are killed each year in traffic stops either by the offender or being struck by a vehicle. The officer that stops a vehicle has no idea what type of person he is stopping. John, I know you are not a master criminal but does anyone think the officer knew that? If you do, go ride with an officer and see if you can identify the driver, his character and whether or not they have the ability or intent of killing you BEFORE you stop the car. If officers had crystal balls in the vehicle, there would be no crime. Very few here are qualified to judge how many officers it takes for officer safety in any given situation.
Until you have “been there, done that” don’t assume you know how to do it. If it was easy to be a police officer, then you all would be one. But, why should you? There are plenty of guys out there, risking there lives on a daily basis but because they do one thing you don’t like………it’s cop bashing time. This area has come a long way in the last few years and it is because of these officers. Oh, I forgot… you need to do all of the above with 25 pounds of gear, situated in such a way as to cause weekly visits to the chiropractor (which insurance barely covers) and that is hot all year long but is miserable in the summer. Let’s not forget the entire law library the officer must keep in mind at all times and the fact that they NEVER got to go to law school (with a few exceptions).
Well, thank you for your time and I eagerly await all of comments from people that are far smarter than I that are sure to follow.
Before this goes any further astray, my issue here is with the ticket not the stop. After having run my name and having come up clean, and with no other ensuing charge coming from the stop, would the end effect be any different had I been given a warning than a ticket?
I don’t know Elliot – you sound pretty smart to me! I think we need to realize that until you walk in another’s shoes, it is very hard to judge.
All the experiences that I’ve ever had with the RPD have been very positive. I have nothing but good things to say about them.
I don’t like the way you guys talk about the prostitutes in our neighborhood. I understand your frustration, but please keep in mind that you should avoid judging until you’ve walked in their shoes and I assume none of you ever have. I assume prostitution is no one’s first career choice. Maybe they’re just doing what they have to do to get by. In the end, how does prostitution (and only prostitution) hurt anyone other than those directly involved? I can see where drug activity can easily lead to much more dangerous activity, but I do not see where prostitution can.
JES:
You’re opening a whole new can of worms with #33. I really couldn’t care much about walking in people’s shoes when they are detrimental in so many ways to where i live. You have so much empathy for them, keep ’em on your block. Most prostitutes are drug addicts, that’s why they do what they do, not to “feed they’re families” ala Sprewell. Where do prostitutes get their drugs? from drug dealers. isn’t that why the problem areas with a high concentration of prostitutes also have a high concentration of dealers? Not to go all slippery slope here, but i think we all know that prostitution is emblematic of more than just a harmless crime in these areas.
“I don’t like the way you guys talk about the prostitutes in our neighborhood.”
I’m sorry but I feel I must comment on this. Perhaps they should “just do what they need to do to get by” by getting a job at McDonalds or employment where experience and references are not necessary. Really, is this the only thing they can do to earn the money to buy some drugs with? Personally, I have no desire whatsoever for these types to be in my neighborhood. “Fine, upstanding, citizen just isn’t something that comes to mind when referring to prostitution. Besides from the fact that the activity is illegal, I have seen sex acts in progress in cars across the street. This is, by the way, in the morning, where a child could possibly see this activity as well. I have walked out to my car to go to my “real job” in the morning only to step on used condoms! I guess I won’t be wearing those shoes today! And it certainly can hurt those who are not directly involved…a plethora of disease can be passed from customer to prostitute to another customer and then to other customer’s wife, girl friend, what have you… Plus is just nasty to begin with!
JES:
“I don’t like the way you guys talk about the prostitutes in our neighborhood…”
Just to be clear, so that there are no misunderstandings later, let me state the following. Prostitutes are disgusting vermin, the majority of who are drug addicts and unfit mothers. The entire lot should be thrown in jail. They encourage more filth to enter our neighborhood to purchase thier services.
They spread drugs and disease.
This isn’t “pretty woman”. These are hookers looking to score drug money in my neighborhood.
Other Mike I agree with you 100%
Oh, come on. John – you got snagged. No big deal – it isn’t that much of a ticket, anyway. I think it’s just sour grapes. But, it is your forum and you have a right to bitch if you want to.
On the plus side, we can see that the police really do respond to community feedback. We got “No Prostitute” signs, more patrols, and a specific response to step up traffic controls.
Every single time I have called the police, they’ve arrived in less than 5 minutes. I have seen them break up an in-progress drug market, arresting at least one person and the rest scattered. If this happens on a daily basis, the criminals will move out of the targeted area.
Let’s say thank you to the 1st Precinct for doing a great job.
I’m sorry, but I have one more comment.
I agree that I do not like prostitutes in my neighborhood. I believe they are up to no good and attract an even worse element. Most are drug addicts and help the drug dealers make a living with their habits.
But I cannot stand the way some people dehumanize other humans. They are not vermin, they are human. Maybe not a human I would like to hang with or have my children associate with. But they are not animals. The same thing goes for other criminals – they may be bad people, but they are people.
Not only is dehumanizing inflammatory, but it belies deeply held beliefs and judgments on the part of the commenter.
Regarding comment #37. Excellent statment.
Thank you tiny! I was thinking the same thing but you said it better than I could have.
John-the last ticket I got was for expired tags and inspection sticker, the latter of which cost me about $104 (it’s a straight fee) if I recall correctly; I highly recommend you get it inspected very soon and head to court.
Tiny, well said.
Well, if it was expired a few months then I can’t blame the police for giving you the ticket. You can’t can’t expect them to stop ticketing minor infractions no matter what the crime rate is. For the most part, patrol officers can’t do much about prostition or drug dealers anyway. They have to see something going on, and that rarely happens when they are in a marked car. They leave a lot of that up to undercover police.
But I do question why they needed two patrol cars. Maybe they thought you looked extra tough 🙂
I do find it interesting that there were 35 drug/narcotics violations on the Crime Map for January, but there were no prostitution or solicitation arrests. Do they even have anyone trying to go after them? Or are they just relying on a few signs to stop the problem?
There is a certain irony in receiving a traffic ticket while crack and blowjobs are being handed out around the corner. But the truth is the Richmond police have been anything but incompetent over the past few years with the huge drops in violent crime.
Would the ticket be justified if you were stopped while driving out in Short Pump?
Were any of you aware that there was a drug market and prostitution when you moved into the neighborhood? Or were you suddenly shocked and surprised at the goings-on in your neighborhood sometime after you had settled into your cozy little Church Hill home? If you were dissatisfied with the habits and lifestyles of your future neighbors, why did you choose to move here? Conceivably, the drug markets and prostitution existed long before you moved here, and will remain here well after you decamp to Chesterfield or some other more respectable community.
This is the Church Hill PEOPLE’S News, and we are speaking about the Church Hill Community. The prostitutes, the drug dealers, the so-called riff-raff are every bit a part of our community as I am, or as you are, like it or not. How can someone cast themselves as an agent of change for the community, when they have summarily decreed that this group or that group from their OWN community doesn’t count, doesn’t have a stake, and for god’s sake could we just somehow figure out a way to price them out of the neighborhood so they would just move? These self-appointed judges and juries may be agents of change for their own self interests, or for their back pockets, but not sincerely for the interests of the entire community.
The solution to drug markets and prostitution? Legalize it, baby. Let the mother-f’in good times roll. Legalize, tax it, control it, and have it on your terms. Has anything else our society has tried so far to root out these “evils” been effective? We’ve got, what, 10% of the total U.S. population incarcerated? Maybe we should just ramp it on up to 20%, see if that maybe does the trick.. (and, hmm, a few labor camps – we’ll just call them gulags, for short–might just give our economy the kick it needs right now, too).
I want a safe community as much as the next guy. I don’t want anyone to be exploited, downtrodden, desperate, or strung-out. Legalize prostitution and institute controlled distribution of drugs, and your neighbors stop being criminals, and become entrepreneurs. Remove the element of criminality that estranges people from society, and bring them back into the fold. Think of all the money from the prison system we can take to pay for social programs that actually enrich and improve people’s lives!!
I never said anything about incompetence. My point is that it would be the neighborly thing to give a warning if no larger charge stems from the stop.
No, but it would fit more somehow. I mean, if one were so inclined to become a police officer, why would they choose Short Pump in the first place? If someone becomes a cop to make the world a better, safer place then they’ll do it where it’ll really make a difference. A Short Pump cop is mall security with a real gun; a Richmond city cop, especially in Sector 113, has real crime that can be working against.
It’s the Broken Windows philosophy of police enforcement (look it up). It is what is credited with having a huge impact on the decline in crime across the country, including the clean up of New York City’s worst areas. The theory, in a really bad nutshell, is that it is just as important to address the minor problems as well as the major problems, because the minor problems lead to the major problems. It sends the message that this community is engaged, and cares, and is serious about its quality of life. It sends the message that you cannot come into this community and litter, speed or have expired tags or inspections because – well hey, there is so much worse stuff going on no one cares anyway. It instills the mindset that CH is as important to the RPD as the west end. Not just because of the big stuff but because of the little stuff as well. Expired inspections/tags leads to abandon /inoperative vehicles. It instills a mindset that this community matters, to the police and to its citizens. The fact that you think you should be exempt from a fine in CH but not in Short Pump exemplifies the mindset.
By your own admission your inspection was a few months out of date. Not a few days, not a few weeks. Those are circumstances when a warning might have been issued. A car that has an inspection that far out of date is prime for becoming inoperative/abandoned (I don’t care what kind of car or how nice you may think it is). RPD took a step in ensuring one less abandoned vehicle in CH I thank them for that. It is not RPD’s job to babysit you and make sure you fulfill your basic responsibilities or to magically know you are a good guy. If you want to keep a car, however often you drive it, keep tags up and get it inspected. Otherwise, get rid of it. Don’t blame them for doing their job.
I am Joe Citizen who has been on the bitching and moaning end of “where are the police, we need more police” meetings. Well, they are trying to give us what we have asked for. I don’t recall any caveats about only enforcing particular laws on particular people. To assume they are too stupid to know how to do their job correctly is pretty galling to me. Because you got a ticket it is clear to you the RPD can’t properly allocate resources and stay focused? Take responsibility for your self.
The truth is the men and women of RPD will be out on the streets, doing their impossibly crappy job trying to stem the tide of criminal activity and bring CH baby steps closer to what we hope to be one day, no matter how many arrogant asinine ignorant slurs come their way.
I don’t always agree with what PD does, and I don’t always like what they do but when they are doing EXACTLY what we ask them to do perhaps we should take responsibility when we are wrong. They get crap from the bad guys, why should they have to get crap from all sides?
Look y’all, it boils down to this: As an involved citizen, I feel put upon when the police bother me about something trivial when there are larger issues that are apparently being allowed to fester (and have been for years). I can’t help but feel that to really take a whack the criminality that is endemic in certain parts of the area, it might be more productive to, you know, go after the drug dealers and not regular folks.
Wowzer – are you a cop? where do you live in the neighborhood?
John, did you even read all of Wowzer’s post? He explained quite eloquently why it is just as important to target petty crime as the big crimes. Look – you got a ticket – take responsibility and let’s just end this thread.
That is *IF* the big crimes are being targeted. How many prostitution arrests were there last month? the month before?
Karen, john m has a bee in his bonnet and in his mind he has been victimized and unfairly ticketed for a several months out of date inspection sticker. Not you or I or anyone else is going to say is going to make him change his mind that his rights have been ridden over roughshod.
I think it is time to let this entire thread die a natural death so our “victim” can be made whole again.
Wow,the moderator is actually in on a slugfest. I love it!
When I got ticketed for my city sticker, it was less than a month expired. I grumbled, but paid the ticket. What bugged me was that FOUR cop cars showed up within 3 minutes of the first cop car pulling me over. O.K., it was 12 years ago, but I still think excessive and uncalled for.
I have never had that kind of responsiveness to any call I’ve made in my 15 years on the hill.
J….. see post 30 as to why they needed two police cars on a traffic stop.
Laura, it was 12 years ago. Let it go. We all admit things were a lot worse years ago. You will never know what the other three officers were doing before the officer stopped you. One or all of them could have been just around the corner and “showed up” when the officer called in the traffic stop. Since you are not in law enforcement (and block captain does not count) don’t assume you know how police work is done, what officers do with their discressionary time or what type of friendships are forged in that cauldron. Any one of those guys would take a bullet for you or any other citizen and this is the thanks they get? Still complaining after 12 years?
Nikki:
I’m simply relating to John with a similar experience, albiet more severe. It seemed an appropriate post.
Sorry if I have offended you or the police in anyway. I seemed to have angered you somehow.
I started the block captain program to help others help themselves, and out of frustration with the amount of crime, problem properties, and the other myriad problems that we deal with in the area and to form a partnership with the RDP.
I appreciate everything the police do up here. I’ve gotten to know quite of few officers, and do understand why more than one car came by that night. I still contend that five is too many.
Residents of the Chimbo Park area, particularly those on E. Broad, are fortunate to have an abundance of Richmond Police cruisers parked in Chimbo Park, day and night, often for an hour more and frequently in multiples! I guess that’s why the Park area experiences little to no crime. At the same time, however, cars speed down Broad, passing the park (and the police) breaking all sorts of laws and land speed records and endangering residents young and old, two-and four-legged. When the stop signs cease at 31st street, there is a sling shot like effect for cars that have a stop sign-free straight away that spans 5-6 blocks. As much as we appreciate the police presence, it seems like some of that “down time” could be better spent where greater numbers of crimes taking place – off the alleyways and on streets north of Broad.
John, I apologize in advance if someone else has already answered your question above, but the fine for driving w/ an expired inspection is $87. I got stopped for driving with one a day or two after you did, and I feel your pain.