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Murden announces bid for council seat
When there is an election for the 7th District council seat being vacated by Delores McQuinn, I will be a candidate. [via]
The timeline for how all of this might work still seems to be up in the air. It is likely that an interim council person will be appointed. As the appointment is likely to take place in the first weeks or months of a 4-year term, it seems that there will need to be a special election to actually fill the position (to likely to take place during the November ’09 election).
At that time, I would ask that you please vote for me.
I would hope that any regular reader of the site has at least a general idea of my perspective, if by nothing else than the actual stories that get posted. My intent is not to lay out a bunch of positions and whatnot at this time, but I wanted to put my name out there and let folks know (after floating this a few weeks back) that I am serious and intend to make a run at this.
If you would like to stay more directly informed about all of this or would be interested in helping, hit me up at murden@gmail.com.
Finally, as this comes up in the future, I’ll try to refrain from referring to myself in the 3rd person. Awkward, yes, but I couldn’t figure out how else to run the headline.
Hell yea! Go get ’em Murden!!!!
Awesome! I think you would be an excellent addition with a wonderful perspective. Best of luck!
John,
Good luck. For what it’s worth, you will have my support.
And, I hope those on City Council, who apparently will appoint someone to replace McQuinn, when/if that becomes necessary, will consider you for that appointment.
— Terry
You’ve got my support, John!
This is outstanding news! John is the best possible candidate for this office! But beware the carpetbaggers planning on entering this race are lining up and on their way!
Thanks for the words of support. I’ll totally be calling y’all on that in a little while 🙂
The Style post referenced above has been added to since I first posted this, and now includes:
@John- from what i recall about past people leaving the city council the council votes on who will replace the exiting member. Wont they serve the whole 4 year term? Are you sure the procedure is to have a special election?
I’ve not heard an official description of the process at this point. It seems that with the new 4-year terms that there would have to be an election.
I have learned recently that city council appoints someone to serve for 11 months then a special election is held. For example, Bill Pantele was first appointed then he ran a campaign and was elected.
Yay! I am doing the happy dance for you! And for us!
Can I put in my absentee ballot now since I’ll be living in St. Louis by then? Oh, and don’t forget to have all the dead people in the local cemetery vote for you…it seems to work for officials in Chicago…just don’t try to profit from other appointments.
Glad to hear it. Good Luck!
Good luck John! When you win, I have some things to talk to you about…
I couldn’t think of a better candidate for the position!
This is great! John you will be a great addition to council. I will totally vote for you.
gray, so you are saying that Pantele is our current representative for East End District 7?
Rock On John!
I appreciate the fact that you tend to look at all sides of issues (or atleast present them here!)
I’m sure that Eric will have a problem with your Office hours, but other than that I think you have a lot of support here.
And i’m just kidding Eric!
Sorry John, but JJ, Jennie or Matt have my vote!
Eric #16, Oh no, I was just giving a past example of an appointment to city council.
@gray, to me it seems a tough battle to beat a previous appointee, but if its easy everybody would be doin it. Go for it John! start talkin to council people directly about them supporting you as soon as you can, and get your supporters to call their councilperson, they want to what their constituents want for the most part. Introduce yourself to Paul Goldman if ya dont know him already.
sounds to me that it could be a bit of Chicago politics.. If JJ is McQuinn’s son….
Liberty, whether or not it will be a tough battle will depend on who the city council appoints. From what I can tell, Murden already seems to have support in and out of our district. Your suggestion to call council members is a good one. Everybody start calling!
People who have declared their intention for the council seat cannot be appointed. They will have to wait and run in the general election next fall.
points to consider;
1.In the past John Murden has put forth the position that he, by virtue of his publishing this blog site, is a legitimate journalist. If this is the case I expect he will give up any and all control of this site, as it would be unethical not to do so.
2. With no offence intended to Mr. Murden, I am curious to know the basis of his support I have seen here. I have seen John at many meetings and never heard him voice any opinion at all on the topics discussed. Nor do I recall him taking any definitive stand on any issues discussed in this forum. It would seem to me that an intellgent voter would at least want to know a candidates stand on vital issues before throwing any support their way.
With no offense intended to Rubberneck, I would think that the opposite would be true — that one wouldn’t want a highly opinionated councilperson who brought their own agenda to the table — rather, one would want a councilperson with their finger on the pulse of the community, someone who is a good listener and observant steward of the community’s wants and needs. I think John would be the perfect person for that job.
hillkid – do you have a city code or state code reference for post 24? That is interesting.
#24 does that mean city council cannot appoint anyone on the list in Style?
#25 you’re assuming none of us have spoken to John Murden in person or know his views. People hold conversations outside of blogs and forums.
Hillkid doesn’t know what he/she is talking about.
The appointed person can run for the seat in the general lection if that person so desires — just as Pantele did after he was appointed to fill Kaine’s seat.
# 25- rubberneck
consider adding 1 to 2. no offense, but wouldn’t a legitimate journalist attend meetings to gather information? as a jounalist- and a fine one, imho, mr. murden has done just that.
in high hopes someone steps up to keep chpn going, if m’s reason for stepping down is in hopes of stepping up. he’s got our votes all around.
go j. go!
Murden is a solid guy, with bonafides into the community. He teaches history at MLK and is a highly regarded and effective teacher. Further, he has used his blog as a demonstration of “Democracy in Action” and has brought more people into community dialogue and conversation than anyone else.
You might not like that, given that in the pre-CHPN days, the only people who had their voices heard were the members of the Henry Gang or the Doug Gang, all of whom were practiced at the art of genuflection and kissing the “rings” of the political bosses.
Murden is just what the 7th District needs — a fresh voice willing to allow other voices to be heard! Count me in.
The council will not appoint someone who has declared a candidacy.
You go, John!! If we lived in the city – you’d have our vote! Since we’re in the county – you have our best wishes instead!! Glad to hear that you’re going forward!
obviously a journalist would not say anything. The point is that he still hasn’t said anything. People are announcing support without knwing where he stands, AND he is using his “journalistic” forum to promote his own candidacy. As I stated in the previous post, an ethical candidate would cease his journalistic activities when his candidacy was announced.
ACTUALLY, he did not! His candidacy was announced in Style Weekly.
Hillkid, wouldja please be so kind as to cite city or electoral code as to all these edicts you keep popping out with ….basically, I am asking you to “Show me the Code.”
Rubberneck – I disagree. We are who we are, and we bring that with us where we go.
Most candidates choose to have a site that promotes them, and John has clearly not treated this place as that. If and when he chooses to launch a separate site for his candidacy, that will be okay, too.
Part of who John is is what he does. And he has been doing this site, where many folks participate, for a good while. Through his steady demeanor, he has managed difficult and unruly situations with a mixture of laissez-faire and calming involvement. These, alone, are traits that show his character well.
I know John in person, too. We used to work together at a weekly arts, humor, and entertainment magazine. He’s as mellow in real life as he appears here. I must say that I take issue with questioning his ethics for the fact that he is continuing to do something he has already been doing for a while – run a popular site that has an active base of contibutors, including you.
It feels like trying to tear someone down for the hell of it – someone who is sticking his neck out for his peeps.
So, for what it’s worth, not only do I not think that your viewpoint has merit, I think it’s kind of malicious.
Just sayin.
The councilpeople who represent The council districts that Mayor-elect Jones won for the mayoralship will probably select who will take McQuin’s seat. Its funny that no one in the 7th district will have a say in who takes the 7th district seat but councilpersons who represent the other areas of the city will select who represents the 7th district. This cant be good for the 7th district and they have the REv. McQuin to thank for this.
I have no idea why its unethical for murden to do his website and also run for council. All the moralizing crybabies are full of crap and of course have some loser agenda of their own
Hey folks,
I chose to let this pop in Style first as an indication of how I see the relationship between this site and whatever else I’m up to. CHPN is what it is, and this has value to many people outside of this political thing.
I don’t plan to give up CHPN, nor do I intend to use it as my personal vehicle. If someone else would like to interview any of the local candidates for office, I would be glad to run that. I’ve been glad to publicize any events that might be held in the area, even if it’s not my thing.
I’m sure I’ll have a website for the campaign, as will whomever else ends up running. I’ll post a link those as they come online just as I have done in the past.
Echo #26
Radical/post 35.
There may not be an “official code” about the longstanding behavior of Council appointing someone who makes it clear they don’t intend to run in the next election.
That said, it is traditional for council to approve someone who says he/she doesn’t see themselves as a candidate for the office in the next election. Some folks think that would give the appointee and unfair advantage of being the incumbent.
Just last week I was in a meeting with a city hall staffer where this issue came up (it was pertinent to the plans we were discussing). The city staffer (25+ year tenure) reiterated that it’s traditional that council seeks to fill the vacant seat with someone who isn’t running for office.
So perhaps what Hillkid & others are saying is that just because there may not be a city code for this appointment, doesn’t mean there isn’t a “tradition”.
That said, politics is a moving target. The Pantele scenario may have been simply a one-time aberrance or an indication that council may be inclined to buck tradition if no other appointee is found/deemed suitable.
I cannot fathom why someone would think that someone could not both be a Council person, and run a forum providing photos/events/police reports/etc. of interest to the community. BTW, through his management of various and sundry blogs, John has already demonstrated his ability to distinguish what is appropriate for a community space such as this, and what is appropriate somewhere else.
And another echo to #26. Different hats require different comportment. There is no reason to expect that the same individual is not able to wear several hats, and well at that. Presumably as a successful teacher, John does more than quietly observe in that context, as appropriate for that context. Just saying, people are not unidimensional.
by hosting CHPN, he is better versed of
all the news of Churchhill, and has shown a true commitment to the neighborhood. Though we don’t share the same political party, he has always been fair, allowing everyone a voice. Can’t ask for more than that.
Is Murden asking for the appointment or announcing he will run for the office — or both?
Where is this comprehensive code of ethics about journalists running for office/publishing a web site, the one that rubberneck is citing?
And, as far as people getting appointed to an office, and whether or not they later run for reelection, in the past it’s happened about every way it can. I can’t remember there any longstanding tradition for appointees not running, or running.
When it seems like people are just making stuff up out of the blue, and it’s not close to being funny, it’s hard understand what their point is. Other than to be annoying, it’s hard to see why they do so.
#40 said, “there may not be a city code for this appointment, doesn’t mean there isn’t a ‘tradition’.”
What I like about John Murden is that he breaks the ‘tradition’ of Richmond politics of unethical maneuvers, bribery, corruption, bullying, cronyisms, thinking alike, and agendas. Community to John Murden is not just a political slogan but a real possibility. When and if he sits on city council, I trust that he will think of us, the citizens of the 7th district.
to me Murden is a generational change candidate, probably the first gen X candidate, and if gen X needs anything its a break from the oppression of the boomer generation before they bankrupt the country with all the entitlements theyve voted themselves, sex drugs rock and roll… and bankrupt your kids. Politics is a tough business you need thick skin, and have to understand politics is not principles or you arent gonna get elected. Go Murden!
Liberty, I’m confused. Was there a vote on sex, drugs, and rock and roll?
I am curious about the “politics is not principles” statement….Liberty, can you expand on that?
FYI, in my early post #40, I was not endorsing any candidate (for either the appointment or the election) but simply trying to share some info regarding the process (a process which i am not advocating, just trying to explain/discuss with others.)
Berneice (sp?) Abernathy or Mark Emblige (sp?) would have been superior to Bill Pantele!
Problem is, neither one of them was able to cut deals with Sa’ad El-Amin or Gwen Hedgepeth. This ought to have told people something important about Pantele!
UnionHill, I didn’t get from your previous post that you were endorsing any candidate, etc. Sorry if my comment conveyed that.
Awesome!!! Wish i could vote for ya.
@ karen, for example Obama said he was for change/reform and then after elected he hired all these old clinton folks. You cant reform or change by hiring the same old people. So it got me to thinking pols will say anything to get elected and then once elected and gaining power they just do whatever they want. I’ve seen it over and over, pols just say whatever voters want to hear to get elected. Hence they have no principles they just have politics. In my opinion pols arent principled. What do you think?
@gray i was trying to take a shot at the supposedly egalitarian boomer generation by quoteing the boomers philosopy of sex drug rock-n-roll and…bankrupting their kids. generational warfare, class warfare type thing. Its wrong to pass your debts on to your children.
re post 53: I disagree. The whole post sounds like an excerpt from Fox news. Let’s see what happens.
John, You are great at maintaining a neutral voice on this website and others. It will be interesting to see how you come down on the controversial development issues facing Richmond. To paraphrase Lincoln, “You can’t please all of the people, all of the time”, not that you will try, but there are plenty of political landmines out there. out there. It will be interesting to see how your fan mail runs once the sh*t hits the fan.
Good Luck.
Liberty…I think the change that Obama was talking about was from the disasterous Bush years. Many of the old Clinton folks are actually quite intelligent and knowledgable in the ways of making the system work. They got the budget balanced, kept us out of a major war,and made some attempt at getting the national debt down. While I don’t condone the conduct of the President at that time, I respect the fact that he did hire effective staff people. Experience sure beats out enthusiastic imaturity. Also, let me say, as a Boomer generation person, I regret that you are so immature that you place every one in that age group as your sterotype sex/drugs/and rock and roll. Your generation is not without fault. Maybe you need to grow up.
What an opportunity for the community!
I doubt John and I share the same political party affiliation but I have learned through my associations with many of my neighbors that local politics seldom line up like the stuff we see in DC. “All politics are local” said Tip O’Neill and I find myself aligned with my liberal neighbor(s) more often than I would have imagined 4 years ago , when I came here to live.
DeLores is now on the way to the big leagues having used this district as a stepping stone to bigger ( and better?) things. I’ve watched her tenure as our rep and honestly cannot think of any one thing she has done for this rapidly changing area but hold the old party line and show up for a few block parties.
In the area of accomplishment I see John Murden as having produced more for the community by creating this forum for this new community that Union Hill has become.
While there are some outstanding people throwing their hats in the ring it appears to me John’s desire to serve is more community oriented and less of a stepping stone to higher office or to serve an agenda .
I’ll support John but I would caution him to refrain from any more photographic excursions into Evergreen Cemetary…….no need to fatten the voter registration rolls further.
I just read post # 57 and I find it illustrative that the only ad hominem attack in this entire post was thrown by a Obama supporter. Winston…….Tsk Tsk………Perhaps before you blame the picture you should look first at the lens.
#25/Rubberneck:
At the risk of being pelleted by almost everyone on this thread, I agree with you on point #1.
While all the local bloggers that have come on here circling their wagons in support of Murden and local folks as well, I think it’s worth thinking about how editing and controlling the content of this site may be a conflict of interest now that he has announced his candidacy.
!st Amendment aside, and, no. there is no “law” pertaining to Journalists running for office, but journalists don’t run for office and keep their journalist jobs. It is an ethics thing more than a “law” thing. I know that bloggers aren’t really journalists in the traditional sense, and the internet being the Wild West that it is, I guess that it’s a judgment call whether or not to be the editor of a local news site and run for office. I know that Bert Berlin kept his blog going throughout his campaign and yet Paul Goldman ceased doing his radio show when he announced his candidacy. Remember how they pulled Ronald Reagan and Arnold’s films during their campaigns?
A friend of mine told me that Conaway Haskins, who used to do the South of the James blog, got appointed to the staff of Jim Webb. Conaway is the eyes and ears of Webb in Richmond. He couldn’t write about politics of course, really, or anything to do with Webb. But it’s a busy and demanding office, and as of Dec. 7, he seems to have suspended his blog. Also, Jon Baliles, who is the River City Rapids and the WeeklyRant, got appointed to a City Hall public relations position, hasn’t given up his blog, but his entries are fewer and more about entertainment.
Murden may not take a stand much on this site, but he says above on this thread, “I would hope that any regular reader of the site has at least a general idea of my perspective, if by nothing else than the actual stories that get posted.”
He chooses the content through his own filter. He also chooses which comments stay and which ones go. I’m not saying that he’s not fair and balanced. Most of the time I think he is. The point is that he is his own watchdog for this media outlet. People are influenced by the content of this site.
He has said that if anyone wants to interview the other candidates that he would be happy to post them here, but he is not going to make a point of making sure that the other candidates are interviewed and represented here. I think that is biased in itself, and he hasn’t even left the gate yet.
It would be different if this site was his own personal rant blog, but it isn’t, it’s a community news forum. He also charges for advertising on this site. Granted it isn’t much and probably only pays for his hosting fees, but he charges nonetheless.
Someone said that this blog is part of who he is. Yes. It’s also what has gained him notoriety in the community. I don’t think many of us would know him otherwise. With his involvement, the site will continue to attract attention to him regardless of whether he campaigns on it or not. Is this CHPN or John Murden’s blog? Right now it is both. I think it should just be CHPN while he is running for Council. Start a separate campaign site.
I know that CHPN would not be here if it weren’t for John, but if it has legs it should be able to continue with someone else taking over temporarily. If it truly is our community’s news outlet as Murden says it is then a candidate for office should not run it.
Look, I think this general topic is worthy of discussion, and one that goes beyond this local forum. You can poke me in the eye and kick me in the shins all you want!
@Winston from personal experience reform and change is impossible when you keep or bring back the same old dead wood, i’ve experienced it and to me its just common sense. Bus h did the same things to get elected promising tort reform and small govt. We didnt get any tort reform and he grew the govt. big time. I wasnt taking a swipe at Obama just using the most recent example of Pols being pols. Pols really insult the people when they campaign on one thing and then just to whatever, unfortunately that is the state of our democracy at this time. And we the people should demand more not just continue the same old tired “you’re just like fox news”, people who think at this level do nothing to improve the state of affairs, theyre just boring in my opinion.
@winston- your comments about my generation confirm my belief that generational warfare is alive and kicking, it is an issue that is not on most peoples radar screens but could become a real issue. My sex drugs comment was flippant, more importantly is the economic issues regarding the boomers selfishness in voting themselves the national treasury in govt. entitlement programs and leaving the younger generation X with a lower standard of living and all your debt!
As much as I want Murden to run for council and run this awesome site, I have to agree that hillkid made a good argument with valid points. It is a topic worthy of discussion -we’re in new territory and some boundaries might need to be drawn. Is there a way to keep Murden as a journalist running chpn with political threads (after all they are some of the best reads) without CHPN becoming a personal campaign site?
note – papers such as the TD, Free Press, and NYtimes, TV news like Fox and CNN, and online journals all have a slant so I don’t expect Murden to lose that. You have to look at few different news sources to form a solid opinion.
Yes. You just have to trust me 🙂
Seriously though, I will eventually have a campaign site and do all that stuff separately.
I’ll post any campaign events to the calendar here as I will for anyone else that is running, just send’em in.
It would be in all of our benefit to have this site be more open rather than more closed. Anyone that wants to interview any of the candidates or other local officials or public servants, have at it & I will run it; this is not a new position for me. If anyone wants to write-up any district or neighborhood event/meeting/etc, I would be glad to run that.
This was my original model for the site, but except for folks that are already blogging this hasn’t really taken off. I’ve tried to suggest ways for folks to get involved, to some small degree of success.
Wouldn’t it be nice if someone that was at tonight’s CAR meeting was interested in coming back and sharing details about all of these local projects that haven’t been really been presented to CHA or UHCA or elsewhere? Anyone can take it upon themselves to do this, and we all know more about what is going on in out neighborhood. Write it up and send it to me or post it to your own site (for example) and send in the URL.
“It would be in all of our benefit to have this site be more open rather than more closed.”
I agree.
i agree censorship sucks
@gray- it has recently come to my attention that there may be a problem with candidate Murden doing a community website. Hypothetically the candidate could censor any comment that he deemed non-beneficial to his campaign. Theres no rules as to what can be censored? Do you have an opinion?
Dearest Gray, Post 45: no honey, i wasn’t concerned about your interpretation of my post #40. You “get it” regarding our communal “search for wisdom” here on CHPN.
I was replying to F.T. Rea’s Post #44 that scolded all of us for being “unfunny and annoying.”
Funny thing, a lot of folks read & post on this CHPN blog ’cause we learn from each other. I don’t see that kinda thing happening on Mr. Rey’s blog, he’s all by himself, tho he seems to think he’s a pretty smart & funny guy.
Don’t underestimate JJ’s machine. He already has a grassroots organization and is already gathering support. Make no mistake, he will win. He will win easily if he runs. He also has more experience than the other potential candidates. He also knows how to work with all people. It doesn’t matter if he is McQuinn son. He has been working in the district for a long time and I don’t see anything wrong with him continuing his mother’s legacy.He knows the district inside and out.He has my vote and probably 65 to 70 percent of the district if he decides to run.He will win.
re #66 Liberty, The guidelines Murden has followed in the past will apply now. On this thread alone you can find unfavorable remarks and closing in on election, it will get ugly. Murden can handle it. And if we, the readers and bloggers, find we are seeing fluff, we will yell and curse. But it won’t happen because CHPN -just the way it is now with all the opposing views, questions, intelligent and silly and abrasive remarks, and agreements- not only draws in outsiders’ interest but John Murden’s too.
But yes, for those who don’t know him and are new to the community blogs, it will be a hurdle to accept CHPN as a news site with a slant and not as his political platform.
#67 my mistake, thanks.
The fact that even JJ’s followers call him a machine should tell you something -what a scary and threatening description.
This sounds like a very interesting race. I have not had the opportunity to spend any time wth John but from what everyone says, he seems top notch. I have had time to talk to Matt and he is equally committed to and involved with the community. I will be very interested to hear what the candidates have to say about the issues. Just because someone is “a good guy” doesn’t mean they will be effecive in that circus we affectionatley call city council.
I see no reason why why John can’t run the site as well as run for council. It’s not like this is the RDT and he is running for mayor. Once again things are getting blown out of proportion.
wow even an anonymous little toerag seems to understand that the air of honesty that seems to permeate this site actually masks the smellof one guys opinions.murden picks who gets printed and who doesnt so its not actually a community dialogue now is it? one can of course resort to the old assertion that its my ball and i make the rules but it seems a liitle odd coming from a guy purporting himself to be journalist and now a leader of the community. start a campaign site seperate from chpn. all that said thanks for the forum buddycorbett
buddy- i couldnt agree more with your take on censorship, i have personal experience of it on this site and I lost some respect for Murden because of it.
gray- have you experienced censorship? I have two times since blogging on the Richmond sites. One site claimed they lost my response to a ridiculous smear of Paul Goldman by Bill Fartar, and once on Murdens site because “tiny” in my opinion flamed me and I flamed him back, no cuss words just minor comments along the lines of-try to add an intelligent comment if ya can. I noticed “tiny” was a cheerleader for Murden and he wasnt censored but I was. Once i commented harshly on Richmond Public Schools having the highest amount of money per student in the state and a poor drop-out, truancy and graduation rate. I expect more for my tax dollars. This got candidate Murden a bit riled up in my opinion. CENSORSHIP SUCKS!
Actually, I am not a cheerleader for Murden. Before John announced his candidacy, I would say I was a strong supporter of JJ. JJ works hard for this community and understands the concerns of some of most neglected residents. It’s not fair to reject him out of hand just because a poster used the word “machine”.
However, I am intriqued by John’s candidacy. I truly believe he is a good guy who wants to do well for the community.
So, I will be paying close to each of them. The election is not until next November. It should be a good one.
I try very hard never to use abusive language or personally attack people. However, some folks really get under my skin. Just the same, I try to always be as curteous as possible when expressing an different point of view.
“However, I am intriqued by John’s candidacy. I truly believe he is a good guy who wants to do well for the community.
So, I will be paying close to each of them. The election is not until next November. It should be a good one.”
Agreed. JJ is also a longstanding member of the Richmond Crusade for Voters (It would be nice if they had an official blog).
Liberty, I oppose censorship and no I haven’t been censored on this site and I have written scathing reviews of RPS and there is more to come. I’m a bit surprised that John would censor your RPS comment. John can you explain?
I don’t, however, oppose censorship of comments that give personal information that could endanger someone’s life or disrespects a neighbor’s privacy. I’ve seen several of those taken down.
Tiny, I’m not rejecting JJ because of the “machine” comment but I’m so tired of the thuggish tone of his followers, “You Will Be Defeated…If You Want To Run You Better Get With Him.” Like we’ve got some Monarchy here in the eastend. Then they turn around and try to say he’s a “nice guy.” If JJ isn’t like this then he should find new friends and his new friends need to be more specific on his community service, something other than his campaigning experience. If campaigning is enough then several generations of my family is suited for political office.
well JJ ha my vote
Based on what, David?
He has your vote because you’ve seen him hanging out with his mother?
Because you think he is ENITLED to it?
What are his qualifications?
all of us have said things we wish we could take back……even crusty ole misanthropes like myself.however,i aint ronning for any office. when murden tells local media that he hardly ever deletes or edits submissions….. well thats an easily refutable statement. shit murden has refused to print 10t 15 of my submissions alone which gives lie to the assertion that chpn is a community dialogue. i have bitched about this before …..but you never saw my arguments. some of my comments may have been combative but who is to decide that? i would rather be policed by fellow bloggers than admonished by murden who seems to selectively practise censorship based on his own standards. one of these anonymous caterwauling punks took terry rea to task for his slant efforts. terry has never repped his blog as anything but one guys vision. murden reps chpn as a community forum then printswho he wants. thats called hypocrisy folks no matter how much you admire murden personally. perhaps now that john is under the pitiless glare of public scrutiny he will be acting less as a filter than editor and we can all wax on as we like . let us roll,something good may come of it. if not well then hey its just conversation anyway right?buddycorbett
So is CHPN more of a community blog, online neighborhood newsletter, local journalism, or is it along the lines of Rea’s op-ed blog? It’s a mixture.
Liberty, I just remembered, the online Times-Dispatch has censored my comments several times and I didn’t write any personal attacks, anything libelous, or curse words.
Maybe a forum could be held on blogs and censorship? Have all the online community news folk tell us whether or not they censor and why. Invite in the online journalist from the TD, Style, and Save Richmond and the guy from Tobacco Ave because he’s funny.
#63/john_m:
“Yes. You just have to trust me :)”
Wow, really scary.
That’s like saying that when being intimate, you promise not to complete the act in a certain location. (I have a much better way of saying that, but it’s too vulgar for this site.)
To be fair, I think this kind of thinking, as quoted above, has been going on in politics in the town for a long, long time.
Candidate with a potential conflict of interest simply want it both ways. Is it ego? Economics? Well, let’s just say that in this instance, it isn’t economics.
Separation of the media from political power and a separation of church and state. Churches are not supposed to engage in political campaigning or endorse a candidate publically. Many of our elected officials in this town are of the clergy and still get paid to preach from the pulpit of their churches during and after political campaigns. By virtue of their employment their mere presence on the pulpit is making a political statement. You can’t preach to the people, be paid by a church to do so, and run on a political ticket, and yet, it continues.
And, yes, they too say, “You’ll just have to trust me.”
These are murky waters we have traveled down many of time in this town. In my mind, the power of the church and the power of the media are two areas that should be off limits to political office.
What is more important to you, keeping your blog or running for office? I think it’s problematic you can’t make a clear judgment call on this.
So, Mr. Murden, are you the change we can believe in, or are you just more of the same?
And as a side note, Richmond seems to like more of the same. Every incumbent returned to the Council. Speaks volumes.
I accidently posted under the wrong thread. See post 119: http://chpn.net/news/2008/12/14/further-updates-on-the-shockoe-proposal/#comment-66928
I think John has every right to keep this blog from becoming one of those “b*tch slap” sites. I hope your criticisms doesn’t end up shutting this site down. It is a great forum and sounds like you are trying to tell John he has to shut it down or either let it become a “uncensored” site that allows abusive language and personal attacks. He has made clear he doesn’t want this blog to go in that direction. That’s why we have moderated comments now; too many people simple could control their venom.
You guys were all for john in the first posts. You certainly turn on a person quickly.
As for me, I will continue to watch the campaigns and will decide who to vote for in November.
I’m still for Murden running for council and his site but hillkid stated previously that his vote is going elsewhere and I’m unsure about Buddy.
I think a dialogue on blogs and censorship is absolutely necessary.
#82/#83:
I think you are missing my point, and the heart of the matter.
Murden is running for office. This is a news site. He is the publisher, editor, comment moderator for this site. It is a conflict of interest for him to do so.
The fact that he does not recognize, as a candidate, the need to avoid even the appearance of impropriety show that he is ill-prepared for the task he is taking on.
i agree sometimes some of us, myself included, let emotions get in the way of what were trying to say. I try to be a stoic philosopher, they believe truth was not found in emotions or passions. I like gray alot because he seems to be stoic. grey murden didnt censor me on my RPS comment, didnt mean to miscommunicate. i think a censorship debate would be cool.
annonimity dosent bother me, i think it lets people be more honest, i hate sites that dont let you blog unless you give all this info. address, phone #, i remember a few years ago they wanted your credit card number to blog.
I dont know JJ but nepotism wont get the district the best representative, fair competion will. Jefferson strongly warned of religion and politics mixing; the Reverend mayors state house seat was replaced by the reverand councilpersons seat. Murden might want to take the reverend test, i heard its like 10 dollars
Wouldn’t it be cool if all politicians or proposed-politicians had a blog section of their own campaign sites where the community could get involved and voice opinions? But wait! Bad PR! People disagreeing and not holding the party line! People being heard that are not dumping a bunch of favors or money down the rep’s throat! Revolutionary!
If John were worried about PR, or trying to use this place for that, there would be more than a couple deleted comments.
Instead of pulling back on dialogue, the democratic way is to encourage more. I say make it the norm that campaign sites have a section for people to gather and exchange ideas.
Why not?
Honestly, I think what we are witnessing here is some puerile “blog envy.”
Instead of starting their own damn blog, some people would much rather attempt to vilify Murden because he actually inists on a bit of decorum. So what if Murden has a blog? Anybody else out there can have one, too! I say more power to Murden if he insists that discourse on the blog be civil. His tolerance zone for what constitutes “civil discourse” is far greater than mine.
Ad hominem attacks help no one. Some stuff should really be kept in the privacy of one’s home or therapist’s office.
We don’t expect people to give up their jobs in order to become public officials. Murden is a teacher. Are we going to insist that he not communicate with any of the families of his students because that would give him an unfair advantage over a candidate who doesn’t spend time inside Richmond’s Public Schools? This is ridiculous.
Murden has my vote, but if I were he I might seriously reconsider trying to represent people who are so quick to find fault.
How about asking Murden some questions about what position he might take on issues?
I would be happy to ask Mr. Murden issues on his CAMPAIGN WEBSITE.
I’m really amazed that some of you folks do not get the implications here, but it won’t be the first time people vote for someone without really discerning certain practices of a candidate.
Blog envy, hell no. I do like to participate in civic discussions online and mostly in person where it counts more. I’m not oppossed to this site. Keep it going with someone at the helm. If a temporary replacement can’t be found, so be it.
Again, you are not reading what I’m saying. Media journalists and Church preachers have the right to run, but should not run for or hold political office, and keep those jobs. Another example is Al Franken giving up his Air America show to run. I don’t have a problem with Murden being a teacher and running for office.
Interesting how many have fallen silent, especially the blogger community, since my comments regarding this…
We all survived without this blog for a long time before and civic discourse still thrived. In fact, our discussion took place in person, in public where it really matters. We looked each other in the eye. Some of us still do.
It’s a discussion that is going to fall on deaf ears, I guess.
And before anyone wants to attack me for being anonymous, I will say that everything that I have said on this site I have either said in person at meetings, or would say in person without hesitation in public.
The reason that I am anonymous on blogs is precisely what tiny argued, it is foolish to post your full name for the world to have access. On a local level, I have no problem being seen or heard.
Why is it so important that people know who someone is, rather than what they say?
Attacks? Whatever…
Shannon: From a post somewhere on this site recently you defended the use of one’s real name, and claimed that you use your’s. You are still anonymous, even though you say that you use your “real” name. You don’t use your LAST name – big difference. How many “Shannons” are there in Church Hill, let alone the whole world? Most locals have figured out who you are, but you are not broadcasting to the entire world your identity.
“Keep it going with someone ELSE at the helm.”
Important distinction.
re #85 Thanks for the kind words, Liberty.
Good golly Hillkid,
Maybe you should start your own blog- you sure do have a lot to say. It seems foolish to bother to respond to your ongoing ‘pull the chpn plug’ campaign, but where would you be complaining and telling others how to behave without this as a forum?
I wouldn’t for an instant expect JM to dump CHPN for the sake of what is still (sorry) an unknown. His dedication and interest has spread and caused others to be more active in the community, thereby creating an immediate and viable network where much less of one ever existed before..
If you got along so well without CHPN before its inception, why don’t you consider swearing it off as a NY’s resolution? You might become a happier personage.
It sure would be nice to start ’09 without quite so much reiterative griping. Go get jolly, feller!
🙂
Why is it so important that people know who someone is, rather than what they say?
because of reverse blog envy
I feel more cofortable being annoymous, nom de plume, i dont need some blog maniac gettin in my face because I think shockoe stadium is a bad idea. but none of us are really annoymous because you do have to give a valid e-mail and all our respones/comments can be tracked back to an IP address, in case some unstable person goes nuts because someone called them a name. bloggins alot of fun, i enjoy takin a good blog.
Hillkid: I understand where you are coming from, and I don’t mind saying that I find your comment odd.
My reference was with regard to being accountable for my own behavior. It is not anti-anonymity, in and of itself, to make the observation that making nasty posts under a pseudonym is lame.
If you remember, the only reason why I ever got crystal clear and directly identified myself was when some bizarro, inappropriate, anonymous attacks were happening. And I directly identified myself in order to try to bring some reality to the situation, a situation where I would be willing to bet a thousand dollars that none of that nonsense would have been happening in person. No interest in solution, because if there had been, I would have been contacted. Cowardly. Period. Hiding behind some weird cyber-bravado. It’s problematic on the internet. These little blogs are not unique.
I have no interest in constantly broadcasting my full identity, and I am not sure why you might think I (or anyone else) would be. I don’t think of anyone here as really broadcasting, anyway – more like taking part in a conversation. I don’t represent anyone except for myself, so there is not any need for extreme clarity, either.
I do have a job where we tend to be a bit public, and I work around here a lot. But I’m not your typical Prada-wearing, 50 dollar pen slingin’ REALTOR, anyway, who worries a whole lot about pleasing everyone, and what people think about them all the time. I work with folks who dig my work boots and jeans, and want to check out houses in a rugged-ass Jeep. (And if we need to bring your kids, it’s really best if we drive separate.)
Works great for me. Cause I’m really not anybody worth being overly-identified, in general. Just some regular girl down the street.
What I am surprised about is the inability to digest the distinction between posting as a regular person – even anonymously, and making snide cracks under a false identity. Which happens. And these are two different things.
Funny that it would be said that someone is concerned about the big bad world out there, and then gets scoldy with me for not posting my surname with each comment. Why hold other people to a doubly higher standard than one holds themselves? Odd. And very surprising.
Hillkid,
The best cure for “blog envy” is to start your own. They are free.
Anyone with some brains and time can do it. And, therein lies the difference between your example of Al Franken giving up his Air America program and Murden continuing CHPN — not just anyone can get a time slot on Air America or a job at a newspaper for the asking and for free.
So, I urge you to please start your own blog should you so desire. You might even consider running for Council. But, please stop attacking Murden because the guy had the gumption to get up and actually do something to improve this community.
You can also chill with all the talk about everybody looking each other in the eyes etc. We still do, but you sound like some kind of luddite. Maybe we should just go back to pre-telephone days, eh?
Each generation uses the best tools they have for communicating. I am glad there are techno-hip community activists like Murden around. You should be, too.
If the only thing that keeps you from launching venomous personal assaults is the fear of being identified, I argue that this is a personal problem, and I am sorry if that seems to be a personal attack but I couldn’t think of any other way of putting it. Arguments are most persuasive if they are not stated as attacks.
And, some posters reslly take this blog much too personally and take any criticism as a personal attack. Calling people names or just being mean does not constitute an argument or a rebuttal.
Mostly, it just makes that poster look bad.
Sometimes I think that we just need to get over ourselves. Yes, this blog is well-read, but it does not reach all the members of our community. The things said on this blog do not represent a mandate for Church Hill. There are plenty of people, voters, here that have never logged in. And this segment of the population needs representation as well.
This is one of things I’ll be watching for as I choose my candidate – the ability to represent all.
HA! Tiny, you know I didn’t say that. I’m a bit old to be run by fear of retribution. Or so I would hope.
I’m so glad that I’m not one of those folks who takes everything anyone says with the most negative possible slant. If I were, I would consider that a pretty serious personal problem, and something for me to work on.
#76/gray:
“I’m not rejecting JJ because of the “machine†comment but I’m so tired of the thuggish tone of his followers”
It’s not just JJ’s followers with a thuggish tone.
I really think people have completely missed the point here. John has claimed on this site to be a journalist. Journalists quit their journalistic endevours when they run for office. That’s the way it is. If the editor of the Times Dispatch decided to run for office he would give up his job as editor. Whether or not John is paid or not is not an issue. (though John does sell advertising for this site, ) JoeRichmond, you’re right, not anyone can get a job at a newspaper or on a radio network, but someone like Al Franken does give up his job when he decides to run for public office, because it is the ETHICAL thing to do. I am of the understanding that this is supposed to be a news site, not a blog reflecting the personal rants of John Murden. If John Murden is , in fact a journalist, and I’ve seen him claim to be just that on this site, he needs to live by the rules of ethics that all other journalists live by. The rules don’t change because the medium uses a different technology.
The fact that this is a blog, or that John is a “techno savy” member of the younger generation is completely irrelevant to the arguement.
I want to put forth two questions to John Murden:
1. Do you consider yourself to be a journalist, and this to be a news site?
2. And if so, can you tell me why the ethics adhered to by other journalists do not apply here?
Since when have newspaper editors — in Richmond, most especially — ever had ethics?
we can disagree without being disagreeable, we can disagree and be disagreable, its fun. we can be announmymous or leave your name address and telephone number. People should quit tryin to tell everybody else what to do;- I realize this pearl of wisdom also is a form of telling peole what to do. Politics requires thick skin, if ya cant handle peoples respones to your comments then why comment.
Are you saying this because John deletes hateful and vulgar comments? Look, every online newpaper site that allows comments set standards for those comments, and most of those standards are much higher than is allowed here. The RTD as commenters to avoid offensive, vulgar, or hateful language and to respect others, as well as a whole set of terms and conditions that can be viewed here: http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/site/terms_and_conditions#usercontent
Citizen journalism is a different animal and let’s not pretend it isn’t. This site is part community news and part forum, with the emphasis on forum. This isn’t the national news, its a blog.
tiny i think what your missing is that you have to censor everyone ….or no one. who decides what is rude and hateful? vulgarity is a useful tool when commenting on various inanities. its all communication whether you are writing like an english major or a street marine. problems arise via selective enforcement of the supposed rules of discourse. i was told to start my own blog if i didnt like the capricious way some of my entries were treated. again ,dont claim to be a COMMUNITY forum if you aint gonna let everybody have their sayso. this blog can police itself without various nanny goats bleating about the vicious tone when somebody disagrees with them.i find it very frustrating when a secret critic makes disparaging personal remarks but my reply in kind is refused as too mean. well….edit everybody or nobody but be consistent. otherwise it starts to look like the moderator is taking sides and or playing favorites. i prefer to be judged in public not in private by a jury of my peers. i chose to post under my own name because frankly why talk shit ifyou are too much of acoward to stand up for yourself?anonymonity isnt a problem if you are notmaking personal attacks like a sneaky little creep. sorry i dont always play nice but i am a work in progress. buddycorbett
buddy, I think you are way off mark. If you feel that allowing offensive commentary is necessary in a neighborhood blog, please start you own. A lot of people are put off by that, and will not comment or offer their opinion for fear of being outright attacked online, which is in itself a way of filtering out commentary.
Come on now, we are all adults. There is no need to come up for a rationale to allow puerile, hostile, and mean behavior.
How come the people here with grievances re Murden’s run for council and running this blog didn’t speak out on this thread /2008/11/19/mcquinn-is-in-who-is-next/ when he asked, “Is there anyone else that you would add to the list? Would it be ridiculous for a teacher/blogger to run for this office?†Then Murden added, “Discuss….â€
Not a word from the naysayers.
I also noticed how some support Reverend McQuinn on one thread then scream separation of church and state and how ministers shouldn’t run for office on others.
I think the arguments against bloggers and reverends running for city council could also be used against corporate and realestate lawyers and developers and architects, the list could go on and on.
#104/gray:
I do not vote preachers into public offices. Once there, however, I am willing to work with them.
Here’s some good links to the debate of Journalists running for office and keeping their journalist jobs.
http://newsandmediablog.com/2008/12/05/chris-matthews-journalists-run-political-office/
http://www.robertfulford.com/Objectivity.html
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Jul/16/ln/ln27a.html
Lawyers and others you mention in public office should recuse themselves from any policy votes where there may be a conflict of interest.
buddy, you hit the nail on the head in my opinion, theres a reason freedom of speech is the first right listed in the bill of rights. but i have a question for ya, what if Buddy attacks an annonymous poster first and then the annonymous poster flames back, i think you flamed me simply for being annonymous(toe-rag, whatever that is), but i didnt flame back cause i like your ideas. So if i did flame back annonymously would i be a coward? or do i have to invite you to the YMCA to lace up the gloves? I think its funny when tiny tells people to clean up their act after all his/her flaming, but him/her has been on good behavior lately, congradulations tiny.
@gray- Thomas Jefferson warned people to be wary of electing clergypersons into public office. I hear what youre sayin about once you argue certain people shouldnt run then you have to include a bunch of people. Its the same logic Buddy uses about censorship,- you have to censor everyone ….or no one
In agreement with Jefferson.
The REV. Leonidas Young, the REV. Gwen Hedgepeth ….and, judging from past behavior, it is only a matter of time before the REV. Dwight Jones gets in some kind of a snafu. Remember, this guy’s church had to sue HIM to get key financial data about THEIR CHURCH.
The Founding Fathers got this one right — separation of Church and State.
I often disagree with the comments posted on this blog, but I do not personally attack people. Simply disagreeing and stating an argument is not a flame.
“you may be right i may be crazy” billy joel (glass houses)
were all just people, we have our beliefs, are our beliefs not who we are?when you disagree with someones beliefs in a sense youre telling them they are wrong, no one like to be told they’re wrong, its like sayin “you’re stupid” So I think if one wishes not to be offensive when disagreeing their must be some tact, i guess theres an art to it. Some are blunt some arfe smooth. I like the lyrics of the Itals’ song Satisfaction “sometimes i wish my tounge could speak more clearly” this sweet song is available for hearing free on youtube.com
True, Liberty, there is an art to “respectfully disagreeing.”
Even so, one of the great things about America is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to express said opinion.
Heres a question for ya Joe, what about “hate speech”? one can go to jail for it
That’s a nice way of putting it Liberty. Believe me, I often taken an unpopular stance on some issues, and posters gave it to me with both barrels. That is why I really really try hard to keep to the argument and avoid attacking the person.
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v5n2/codes.html
A noteworthy excerpt from the article cited above:
“Hate speech codes raise important ethical questions. When civil liberties are pitted against the right to freedom of speech, which does justice favor? Do the costs of hate speech codes outweigh their benefits? Is the harm that results from hate speech so serious that codes to restrict freedom of speech are morally required?
“Arguments Against Campus Hate Speech Codes
“The most fundamental argument against hate speech codes rests on the idea that they violate a fundamental human right, freedom of speech. Such a fundamental right, it is argued, should not be limited except to prevent serious harm to others. Libel or shouting “Fire!” in a movie theater, for example, can cause serious harm and, therefore, are legitimately banned. In contrast, what campuses prohibit as “hate speech” is primarily opinion that, while often offensive and unpopular, does not cause serious harm. The fundamental right to free speech should not be restricted merely to prevent hate speech.
“Additionally, critics assert that the costs of hate speech codes far outweigh their benefits. Threatened by “politically correct” students who are backed by hate speech codes, students who have reasonable yet nonconforming points of view will be afraid to speak in classes. As a social institution, a university should be open to all opinions, popular and unpopular. As Oliver Wendell Holmes commented, “The very aim and end of our institutions is just this: that we may think what we like and say what we think.” Hate speech codes thus inflict a major harm on our social institutions.
Oliver Wendell Holmes says it better than I can.
Still, as I have counseled and comforted friends and children over the years, I readily acknowledge that I strongly disagree with the bromide: “Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words will never hurt you.”
Words do hurt. Hate language dehumanizes and corrodes the souls of both the speaker and the receiver. Now, more than ever, we need to remember the power of words and offer them in the hope of healing, rather than hating.
I offer the following poem by Countee Cullen as a vivid example of what I am trying to say:
“Incident”
by Countee Cullen
Once riding in old Baltimore,
Heart-filled, head-filled with glee;
I saw a Baltimorean
Keep looking straight at me.
Now I was eight and very small,
And he was no whit bigger,
And so I smiled, but he poked out
His tongue, and called me, “Nigger.”
I saw the whole of Baltimore
From May until December;
Of all the things that happened there
That’s all that I remember.”
liberty i wasnt calling you a toerag. i was actually calling the vicious little hillkid a toerag but because of the constaints placed by the moderator its almost impssible to criticze anything without being labelled a hatemonger or barbarian. all that said i find unintentionally hilarious when the only response i can get from idea bankrupt burnouts is “that i should start my own blog.”tiny you seem to be gradually edging your way into the role of anonymous personal critic. too bad. joerichmond if you had ever taken a good beating you would understand the reality of the old bromide you dis. lovely sentiment you espouse but one that is only meaningful if you live in an environment free of actual physical danger. how about we work on that one before we start worrying about somebody talking shit?child and spousal abuse,assaults, and crimes of property, i submit that all of these issues have way more impact than the language i use when talking to some guy or gal hiding behind a pseudonym. have the courage of your convictions or cease your judgemental blathering. buddycorbett
buddycorbett,
I do have the courage of my convictions.
I have taken far more beatings — physical and verbal — in my life than you can even imagine. And, every last one of them began with words uttered by my parents designed to “put me in my place†and/or to exact from me an acknowledgement that they — no matter how drunk — were my “superiors†by dint of my being a child.
It is entirely possible to criticize someone or something without coming across as a hatemonger or barbarian.
What is your goal — to piss people off or to persuade them to see your view?
Why DON’T you start your own blog? What is wrong with that idea? If you really want to “express yourself,†you could provide a forum for all those who wish to engage in merciless ad hominem attacks 24/7.
~ Joe
P.s. Merry Christmas!