RECENT COMMENTS
Echo Harbor is like a hog farm
F.T.Rea gives an overview of and opinion on the proposed Echo Harbor development:
A campaign to convince City Council to give USP Echo Harbour what it wants has been underway. The developers have pointed at the money Richmond should rake in from new tax revenues. They’ve talked about the jobs their project will create. There’s nothing new about that tactic. True or false, all developers sing that same basic tune when they want special favors from governments.
It’s then up to the government, in this case City Council, to decide what is the greater good.
If the City allowed a hog farm to be established where the GRTC bus barns are now that would create jobs, too. No doubt, the promoters of such a ridiculous notion could blue sky the story of how the hog farm would impact the neighborhood.
Can someone please post a technically correct and accurate picture/rendering of what this project will look like from Libbie Hill?
The best that I’ve got is here, but the angle feels forced .
JT – when you click on the middle photo that is the only rendering we’ve been provided – nothing showing the entire scope of the project from Libby Hill park. I asked for it. The spokesperson said that “it was too expensive” to provide another view. That is, pardon me, bull.
So, we are left to ‘imagine’ the rest; an open space in between to the right followed by three taller buildings. That is what people would see from Libby Hill.
For years, I’ve stood in Town Hall meetings and as a teacher in the 7th district ask for positive economic development to have more jobs in the district. So, why Echo Harbor? Why now? What are the benefits to council members who vote for Echo Harbor? People we can’t keep letting our community get raped.
Deanna,
I think the most recent filing by the EH developers have some new artists conceptions.
Robin,
EH will provide jobs, many of them in the construction phase, and some service jobs after it is constructed. Property taxes will be a significant boost to city revenues. The owners of the property have a right to develop it as an M2 zoning, which includes a much higher office tower, or an industrial complex.
Are these reasons to approve EH? I would say “No.” I would vote against it on the planning commission and again at City Council. I think the project is an unsafe intrusion into the floodway, not yet authroized by FEMA; I think it is an unsafe intrusion into city utilities, and I think Fire Department access is inadequate.
What are the benefits to city council members who vote in favor of it? Tyler is conflicted, won’t vote. Some members will feel the property rights issue is paramount, and will support it. Some will feel that the project is a classic example of poor planning hubris, and will oppose. In neither case do members of council get a benefit. I am specifically excluding a council member who seems to have a very special interest in this project.
Yes, the spectacular view of the waste water treatment plant must be preserved at all costs!
To hell with progress, increased access to the River, and bringing more people into the city!!!
It would be tragic to lose this great view of industrial silos!
http://www.richmondcitybook.com/_imagery/james-river-from-libby-park.jpg
FanGuy – Those silos are slated to come down.
Fan Guy, in addition to the silos coming down, this project would not increase access to the river, it would be a gated community and, like Rockett’s, would not encourage everyone to access the river from there. Just because they might have said they’d give access does not mean they will. You don’t really believe someone with a million dollar condo is going to want the common public hanging around, do you?!
Sundagger #5 – just because it’s zoned commercial does not mean they can build a commercial factory or office building that is taller. There are zoning restrictions against height. Otherwise, I agree with your post, particularly about FEMA and emergency access, as well as your take on council members and their positions.
Has anyone questioned where the magic money that will be used to purchase this piece of land, demolish the silos, and turn the area into a park is going to come from? Anyone capable of balancing their own checkbook knows that this is a pipe-dream. A balance needs to be struck to allow for private development AND public access. Naysay all you want but it is actually possible. The City needs revenue right now, not more bills.
John M, that may be true, but the point is that it is not as if the view from long ago has been preserved all these years.
CRD, right now that piece of land is not really usable by the general public. I don’t have any reason to doubt that some public access will be available on property or adjacent thereto.
As for Rockets, the publicly accessible bike path is going to cut right between the buildings and the river. And, of course, the restaurant is open to the public, and is a wonderful new addition to our waterfront.
FanGuy – It appears that Echo Harbor will have much more of an impact than the cement towers. & also, just because possibly inappropriate development was allowed back in the day does not excuse the same any longer.
There is a difference between a restaurant that is open to the public and a truly public space.
Hey, if Churchillers and preservationists want to pass the hat and take up a collection to purchase that piece of land and make it a well maintained park that is open to the public, I say go for it.
But I am fully opposed to the City taking the land. The City has an awful track record w/r/t maintaining things like that.
one does not have to support this petition or a the city purchasing this land to oppose EH’s request for a SUP. i for one am not sure about public ownership of the property, but am absolutely opposed to EH’s plans as presented thus far.
I have seen a couple of posts a couple of months ago about the mechanism of individuals donating money to purchase the land from USP. Does anyone know if any money was ever donated?
crd, it is my understanding that the requested SUP specifically guarantees public access to the river’s edge and that the Capitol Trail would r7n between EH and the river.
I would gander that a student or students at VCU in the urban planning department might be interested in creating a rendering of Echo Harbor from Libby Hill. It would not be difficult with the right software. They would need to get the plan into AutoCAD, which they could do fairly easily even if it is not provided by the developer (just use the plan and digitize it in AutoCAD). Then either with AutoCAD or a GIS or 3-D modeling program they could extrude it and do a viewshed analysis from Libby Hill park. We were doing this 15 years ago in grad school, and the software has only gotten a whole lot more sophisticated and easier to use since then. I would imagine that there is some student just waiting for an independent study or thesis project opportunity and this could be it.
I would certainly be interested in seeing the results, whatever they may be, and even working with the students (as a non-Church Hill resident who has not formed an opinion on the development, and who is also a city planner (in private practice with no projects in Richmond)).
FanGuy. Why is it that when I’m on Libby Hill at that spot I see more than the silos and the water treatment plant? Why is it that you only see those things? You know you can see the river flowing beneath you. You can wave to people at Ancarrow’s Landing and they’ll wave back! The Williams Bridge building is impressive and so is the entire view of southside! At night it’s like looking at the stars. So if the view is just of a waste water treatment plant, why give it to people who paid like $500,000 for a condo? They’ll be even closer to it and get an even better view of it if the place is built! You need to look at the view as a whole. Why chop it up and put a wall in it?
Echo Harbor may provide some jobs, but not the type of work that I am looking for. We have lost thousands of professinal jobs with cut-backs at Capital One, Genworth, and Philip Morris – not to mention the closing of Circuit City. What we really need is another big corporation to open up somewhere in the metro area that can provide higher paying professional positions.
Cadeho, simple answer to your question — I believe developing the waterfront is more important to the long term success of the city than preserving that view for a few.
Developing for development’s sake is how you get miles and miles of strip malls in the suburbs. It’s how you get row after row of ticky-tacky houses.
Moreover, the James River isn’t private property and Libby Hill Park is a public park.
To block off part of the most famous view of the James River with something that looks like it ought to be a gaudy Ocean City motel is hardly in the entire Richmond community’s best interest.
It’s a matter of what would be gained, and what would be lost.
Great Shiplock Park, Brown’s Island, Belle Island, Forest Hill Park, Pony Pasture, Ancarrow’s Landing, Flood Wall Walk…
How much more park space do we possibly need?
Well, FT, that certainly is your spin on things. Comparing the EH development to a gawdy suburban strip mall is, IMO, laughable. It’s hardly “development for development’s sake,” and it’s hardly the equivalent of “row after row of ticky-tacky houses.” A comparison to the Georgetown waterfront is more accurate, IMO.
On access to the river… I think this project includes a very wide (30′ or so?) public promenade, including the Capital Trail, along the river similar to the one at the Georgetown waterfront. But I could be wrong.
Check the website for new details, http://www.echoharbour.com, plus there was a new story on bizsense today, http://www.richmondbizsense.com/2009/10/14/echo-harbour-gets-proactive/ . The buildings are to the west of the cement towers. I commend these folks for making an effort to appease those opposed. They could just ignore everyone but they are trying to make things better. There is access to the river, but even if there wasn’t, who cares, you can’t go down there now and private owners are not required to grant you access. You can’t drive down Cherokee Road and walk thru people’s yards and this is no different. We have more river access than probably almost any other city in the U.S. Heard of James River Park system? This is a great project that will bring good things to a crummy area. We need development like this as well, not just all parks. There has to be a balance. You think Manhattan, Chicago, Boston is wall to wall parks on the river? Wake up! Development does not always equal bad things.
I agree with one statement that FT made… it’s a matter of what would be gained and what would be lost. What would be gained is a huge piece of the puzzle creating an interconnected river destination running from Rockett’s Landing to downtown. We’d have river access where there is none, a portion of the Capital Trail built and paid for with private funds, new jobs, and new tax revenue. What would be lost? A small portion (and arguably NONE) of a view that has already altered a thousand fold since the historic naming of our fair City? Richmond finally has the ability to start capitalizing on its riverfront and naysayers who likely never thought twice about that vacant land suddenly know what’s best for it. Sorry but this smacks too much of NIMBYISM and a fear of change. This wouldn’t be development for developments sake, it would be to take the next logical step in the progress of Richmond.
Many citizens are concerned about protecting neighborhoods’ historic views of the James River from inappropriate development.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/deadrichmond/3194098039/
By the way, …when will Dominion put solar panels on its Richmond riverfront Enron-styled energy trading facility, like the architect designed it for?
Jeff –
To say that there will be no impact on the view is incorrect. Maybe we would have a better idea of the impact if the developers were up front with the plans. Too expensive my ass!!!
“…Enron-styled energy trading facility…?”
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
Scott, I heard Dominion was going to add the panels, but there was concern that it would alter Oregon Hill’s historic view of the river.
Jeff E. and Brett — well said!
The b.s. is just slathered right on, isn’t it?
Every generation has its hungry developers who see all they survey as exploitable. Sometimes, in spite of what they say, they could care less about the long-term effects on other interests — meaning all the folks who won’t directly profit from the project’s success.
So, it’s up to governments to balance that unrestrained drive to use resources and make money with the interests of the entire community.
While development is economically important, it doesn’t trump all other concerns. And, in plain talk — some development ideas are bad ideas.
I like the new design. I also like that the developers have listened and lowered the building’s height. I don’t oppose development at the site, but I’ve always wondered if it was the best project for the site. I’ve thought a city aquarium would be great. It’ll bring jobs, tax revenue, and families. I also do appreciate the panoramic view… what other city has an overlook like that that’s not in the mountains or one would have to climb up a skyscraper or some other structure? We’re not New York, Chicago, or Boston. They wish they could have our topography. We need to appreciate what assets we have and not destroy everything in the name of progress.
“I also do appreciate the panoramic view… what other city has an overlook like that that’s not in the mountains or one would have to climb up a skyscraper or some other structure? We’re not New York, Chicago, or Boston. They wish they could have our topography. We need to appreciate what assets we have and not destroy everything in the name of progress.”
Yes, well said. Except Echo Harbour is not progress, its a step back.
Another aspect is who exactly profits from the project. Are the Moonies still involved? Does Richmond really want to support their ideology? I understand the City Planners can’t discriminate over who the owners are, but citizens sure as hell can.
http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2008/02/richmond-va-riverfront-developers.html
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/world/article/moon_performs_biggest_mass_wedding_in_decade/299263/
Call me intolerable, but forced mass marriages are not something I want to support in any way.
“I came here against my will,“ she said. “I’m too young to get married. I don’t understand why I have to do something like this.“ She refused to give her name or age, saying only that she was a student.”
Richmond on James vs Richmond on Thames
Panorama from Libby Hill Courtesy john_m
Regarding the cement plant, this will be torn down with $2 million of City money pending a site review. Actual cost may be more.
Well it seems that “the view that named the city” wouldn’t be touched in the least considering the placard itself shows it to the bend. Honestly I don’t understand why we didn’t hear this protest when plans for Rockett’s Landing were announced considering its proximity. Well,I guess its time to come up with a different reason. Perhaps we can call the view of the sewage treatment plan and a few south side industries “historic”? Or maybe we can start attacking people who may or may not be financially involved in the development? Oh never mind, Scott has that covered. So what will it be if the Moon’s aren’t involved? I’m just curious.
The perfect evening out.
My wife and I along with our good friends James and Cindy and their nine-year-old son. Enter the gates of Echo Harbor. We are greeted by the sewer treatment plant. We are escorted to our condo in the pseudo building, where our preferred beverages are already in place. Little Jimmy is taken to the riverbank. After we are seated. The ladies wished to visit the landfill, for a little touchup or a pedicure while the gentlemen discuss violence, whales. flame-retardent pajamas etc.
When we asked our god to commence speaking, our lives were presented as beautiful and ornate. Abundant selections served in the portions we desired. I had the 4-bedroom with marble sinks and a bidet of chocolate, I had them put that on the same mortgage. I also had a side of snobbery, conservative values and mushrooms.
The god was very helpful in helping us choose the carpet. The carpet list was displayed on a large color monitor with pictures of the weaves and a description of characteristics. This made it very easy for each of us to choose our favorite. While we had leisurely lives we enjoyed several performances. The young lady who cleaned our toilets was amazing. The janitor’s dance that night was a set from all that jazz, the slumlord who had to judge the performance was absolutely hilarious.
Afterwords, James and I ascended to the roof for a cigar on balcony. James was very impressed by the one half acre of muddy, stinking floodplain overlooking the James River. He wants to reserve it for his sister’s funeral.
When we informed our god that we were ready to leave. We were treated to no death taxes from the right wing judges, lobbyists, ministers. I ordered teak, James got birch. My wife and Cindy both got the fresh graves dipped in marsh and a bottle of hogs’ feet.
When we got to my heaven. Johnny was in the backseat playing with his new toy. The suits, and my wife’s dresses, which were in the trunk had been cleaned and pressed. My car had been freshly detailed, and the gas tank topped up. After we were handed our halos, I looked around at everybody and said, it’s good to be the king. They all agreed.
Does Church Hill want a green belt where the current industrial-zoned sites all around it are currently? This counts for Echo as well as Shockoe.
If so, there ought to be a City-wide referrendum to come up with the money to buy and maintain the property as the apparently desired parkland.
Otherwise, this is a City. And there are big buildings in a City. Let everyone remember the owner of Echo Harbor can by-right put a factory there.
“Or maybe we can start attacking people who may or may not be financially involved in the development?”
Well, are they or aren’t they? Seems like this falls in line with developers being up front with their plans.