RECENT COMMENTS
Will the Family Market be torn down?
With the business closed since the building was condemned in mid-April, the future of the structure at Jefferson and 24th is in doubt.
The city lists the owner as MANN SELMA R & JOSEPHINE R KATZ RESIDUARY TR. Selma and Josephine are two sisters, both deceased; the executor of the estate is lawyer John Mann, son of Selma.
I spoke to Mr.Mann this past Thursday. He said that the building either needs to be fixed up or torn down, but that no decision had been made at this time.
I told Mr.Mann that rumor on the street was that the building might soon be rented out to a former tenant. He said that this was not so
He also said that the most recent tenant of the space was suing the estate. The allegation as I understand it is that the landlords (the estate) are responsible for the lost business due to the building being condemned, because the condemnation was due to negligence on the part of the building’s owner.
If that lot was fixed up and someone finally buys the law office that is for sale, it would make a great place for a little restaurant with an outdoor patio space. Or heck, even a little community park or play area!
Tear it down and put a parking deck/lot in its place?
The tenants here were parasitic and their business model intentionally fostered crime, drug dealing, public urination, trash, vagracy. They would chase you out of the store if you complained about the condition of the street.
Since the tenants stopped operating here, the drug corner has vanished, the drug spotters and dealers have vanished, the trash has vanished, and the adjacent lot is no longer an open sewer and drug market.
These guys were not “nice” because they carried Fat Tire when you asked them to.
How do we know the guys that sat there were dealing drugs? Did they loiter, yes? But what is the basis for a drug dealing allegation?
This could be the grande dame of Church Hill/Union Hill commercial spaces if it were restored to a proper condition. There is so much demand for commercial space in good locations in the neighborhood right now, and this could be the prime spot.
Dutch & Co., WPA Bakery, and The Roosevelt are all in buildings that used to be this bad or worse.
Remember how craptacular the house across the street used to be? Check it out.
Heard any of the buzz about the newly available space on 27th Street?
Mr.Mann could have a special historic building housing the neighborhood’s next amazing business if he wanted to.
@5 – is it actually historic? I always assumed it was late 70’s architecture with all the aluminum and unfortunate modifications that have been done. If there’s a solid historical shell underneath that changes stuff.
@4 – are you saying they weren’t dealing? I don’t know one way or the other but I’d be willing to make an even money bet on whether I could buy something from them. I realize this is your schtick to try to find racism anywhere you can but given that the police have made several arrests for dealing around there, it’s a pretty safe bet that at least a few of them are dealing.
The city has it listed as 1945, but the Union Hill application to the DHR for National Historic District status has it as circa 1915:
“Late Victorian, 1915 ca.,Commercial Building. This is a 2-story, 7-bay frame commercial structure with remnants of the original storefront visible on the east-end. The building is oddly shaped, with front and corner entrances and two 3-sided, 1-story projecting bays on the second story. The cornice is a continuous box cornice. (127-0815-0192)”
If I recall correctly from pics I have seen on this site a year or two ago, the building housing The Roosevelt was all covered up and looked less than historic. They peeled back the crappy shell and underneath is the structure you see today! If that could happen in this instance, it would be PERFECT for a restaurant–especially given the lot adjacent for outdoor space!
THIS is what that building looked like after the stucco was pulled down, I don’t think I have a good one from before that.
just a neighbor – the last tenants are not objectively defensible. Known drug spotters were seen frequenting back rooms there. Some neighbors up there saw drug dogs taken inside during the last inspection but no one up there seems to know if they found anything. Like I said, the tenants were hostile to neighbor complaints about trash and drug activity.
Where is the outrage against this business model? These corner stores are as bad or worse than payday/car title loan places for keeping people down. Each corner store with no ABC conditions in Richmond is a citadel protecting the worst stereotypes of urban life – things you can’t imagine exist in 2013.
I would encourage everyone to go check out Ocean Grocery on Venable some evening to see what this sort of place is doing to where we all live. If you want to go after midnight, don’t worry, you can still buy a mad dog out of the back door.
@just a neighbor – also, if you don’t know what a drug spotter is, kindly netflix The Wire for a dramatization. Spotting is what has been going on there until recently.
John, I couldn’t agree more…the location is prime and is the missing link in the tricycle garden, alamo, roosevelt, sub rosa, corridor. It would be a great market/general store of legitimate means or another very nice restaurant with ample room for outdoor seating if a deal on the surrounding land could be made. Any entrepreneur would also be in the foot print of the $10k grants from Bon Secours too, so there’s that too.
I would hate to see this building go. I’ve never felt terribly unsafe in or around that grocery, but will admit the business brought a rather unsavory crowd. Regardless, I’d hate to see the building torn down – it has so much potential to really anchor that corner, even without any of the adjacent lots/buildings.
For those of you following closely, John Mann is the husband of Richmond City General District Court Judge Barbara Gaden who – wait for it – enforces property code violations in her courtroom.
@14 Houdon – I smell something strange. Many thanks for the insight. Now, what do we do with it? Contact channel 12? I’m getting the idea here that, in general, at least some of the posters on this site (and John Murden) would like to see this building put to use as a reputable business. I agree totally. I think it should be saved, and whoever does it stands to get tax credits for doing so.
I can remember when Jefferson Ave. was almost lined with so-called convenience stores (which dealt in out-dated infant formula, stolen stuff from Walmart, and let the crack dealers stand out on the sidewalk and called them “contractors” who didn’t work directly for the store – I got that directly from Mongo, the fallen police officer up here). With this one gone, the area is ripe for something. It’s all well and fine for us to speculate, but we need someone with a business plan to do something at this address. And obviously Mr. Mann needs to be ready to sell, which is why I asked about what to do with the information in #14, how to try to get him to sell it as is, and not demolish it. I’d hate to see it torn down at this point.
The rough shape yellow rowhouses at the corner of 23rd and M were foreclosed on a few months ago and hopefully will be sold soon. If they were renovated plus this building be turned into something productive that would be two big wins for Union Hill.
http://eservices.ci.richmond.va.us/applications/PropertySearch/Detail.aspx?pin=E0000331024
I agree with Nearby Neighbor, the place was discusting and only went as a last resort. There were also pan handlers asking for money there and suspious persons loitering in their vehicles. Needless to say I’m Glad its gone. 21st street is one of the main arteries in Church Hill. If I was going to looking to purchase a home in near there I would have had second thoughts due to that market. I hope it is turned in to something more profitable for our area.
I lived on 24th between Clay and Leigh for two years ten years ago, and the neighborhood used to refer to the market as The Family Shootout because two guys were shot dead and several more were injured in or in front of the building. While serving on the board of the East District Family Resource Center, we watched blatant drug dealing not 50 feet from where the kids were playing outside. That place was always a blight on the neighborhood – good riddance to bad neighbors and bad landlords.
I would love to see a small, quality market put in that doesn’t rob neighbors blind. I went in there a few times to pick up the random necessary item, but always left disgusted at the 100% mark up on items. This area needs a bodega, a place where someone can get a few fruits, veggies, a loaf of bread, or a gallon of milk. This spot is perfect for it.
The place was no gourmet market but it did serve a purpose. I was not a fan of the recent owners but the previous ones actually looked after their regular customers.
Many neighborhood folks hung out in front of there to eliminate bad behavior but they couldn’t do it all day and night because they had jobs and families. I’ve also had panhandlers, drug dealers and an underage pregnant girl offer me ‘favors’ for a price. If you know Church Hill then you know when and where to go and at what time of day or night.
The old Family Market cracked me up in general but if I needed a pack of cigarettes, a six pack or something simple then it served a purpose much as a 7-11. I never needed to ‘send money to an inmate at a state or federal prison’ or need them to be my notary public or put minutes on my tracphone (this is why they cracked me up) but they did serve a purpose and a great deal of people picked up other basics like toilet paper or a can of soup.
I’m more fond of a gourmet market but those don’t always have more than over priced items and no basic household items. The former tenants and bosses where actually pretty good folks in a bad environment but they did look after many of their customers and some neighbors used to do the same. I would love to see a ‘Joe’s Market’ or something similar in the area but let’s be realistic. They need to cater to multiple ethnic and socially diverse clients in order to make a profit. The thought of a gourmet wine shop in the old Sunny Market turned into a diabetes and transfusion clinic. Business 101: know your market.
I like the building. I would be fine with its destruction if it was replaced by something better but I doubt very much that that would occur here. As a result, I am in favor of preserving it.
Who gives a rats ass what a bunch of anonymous commenters post? This self serving crap posing as “freedom of speech” allows closet case onanists and assorted prospective developers to pose as concerned citizens. It also allows cowardly bigots to offhandedly describe their venom as their given right when of course its just the sound of one hand typing. Murden get this bunch of self satisfied pukes a new rag to chew huh?To those who post under their real name …thank you. The rest of you ….get over yourselves,its embarassing ……As far as telling people to watch “The Wire”
as training for urban drug warriors? Are you the same kind of geek that thinks Jack Bauer is a real secret agent?Peel the building and sees whats underneath….
@#23. Still with the same old tired venomous rant? You’ve been saying the same thing for literally, YEARS! Do you have something relevant to the thread (any thread!) to comment on? People are going to post anonymously. It’s a fact of life on the internet (much like your ranting about pseudonyms is a fact of life on this site.) Get over it.
Why do you think you are entitled to insult and bombastically belittle anybody who strikes your fancy; because you post with your real name? You’re a bully, plain and simple.
Or do you actually have an opinion on things besides peudonyms? What are your thoughts on the Family Market Building?
Checked some City Directories while I was at the library today. Building has had quite a few uses:
1921-MW Meridith
1933-Sanitary Grocery
1940-Sanitary Grocery
1950-Broad St Hardware
1962-Salvation Army Used Clothing
1970-Walker’s Thrift Shop & Used Clothing
1980-Jordan’s Pool Hall
1990-Joe’s Pool Hall
#23, Buddy Corbett
Some people remain anonymous for many reasons. If you ever need to change jobs or look for a new one in your life then having your name posted all over the internet might reduce your chances. Companies do background checks and sift through your Facebook and online activity. You are correct that any and every post here is simply one person typing and venting or agreeing in one shape or another. Not wanting to post a name is a choice that many people will use. It’s an option on this site and it won’t change unless Mr. Murden makes it that way.
This site is a collection of opinions: good, bad and ugly at times. Many people don’t want to see the ire of neighbors that don’t agree with your opinions. Simply look at the fallout of the CHA. I’ve known many past and recent members and we don’t all agree all the time. You complain but didn’t really offer much of anything to a debate, just complained about others. Putting your name out there may be a badge of pride for you but some people have a bit of job savvy and understanding of how the rest of the world works, for better or worse.
@23 Thanks Buddy, I had a beer with you once. You are a stand up dude. I really think you need to buy that place.
Am I the only one who thinks Buddy is basically just transcribing a mashup of Yosemite Sam and mid-80s WWF soundclips when he writes these?
I’ve definitely found that his replies make more sense if you read them using your best Randy Macho Man Savage voice and then tear your t-shirt and break your keyboard in half after finishing.
Or picture them being said to Bugs Bunny… “Why you no good, lily-livered, yellow-bellied, egg-sucking anonymous bunny. Hiding in your rabbit hole and calling yourself Bugs. What kind of a rabbit are you…”
The bottom line is that the Family Market tenants fostered serious blight and crime, and they strongly rejected in-person neighbor requests to shape up. The fact that urban residents do not want to put their names beside their accounts of seeing things here is reasonable, especially bcause some folks who have operated in this immediate area have a history of retaliation. There were drug spotters and dealers in and around this property. The arrests and eyewitness accounts speak for themselves.
Enough is enough. Buddy, your comments are misplaced here. Since you apparently know this area, you should know better.
P Mayo… that happens a lot and you can basically see the decline of the type of businesses as the years goes by showing how the neighborhhod changed. You can find similar with many of the businesses that are on residential corners.
Interesting buildings used to be next door…
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