RECENT COMMENTS
Let’s talk about how we talk about stuff on here
It’s always been my approach to the conversation on CHPN to almost always have the back-and-forth play out without interference. I’ve always believed that the real world connectivity of the neighborhood should keep things within some basically civilized boundaries.
This does not always happen. A few times over the past nine years this has fallen way way way to the side. Recently, people have said things which have made me decidedly uncomfortable.
I value the comments here tremendously. Some of you say smart, funny, and caring things.
Some of you are assholes. Some of you are acting like assholes. Y’all need to chill out.
Without naming names and going into specifics, I am asking everyone to think a little bit more about the real people on the other side of this before you post something in frustration or anger.
If you need help with this, there are plenty of yoga classes in the neighborhood these days and the Robinson is offering tae kwon do.
I’m asking for a reboot of the environment on here, starting now. Be civil and respectful.
Thanks,
John
TAGGED: chpn
Thank you John. I had almost decided that maybe this blog wasn’t for me. It is my go-to place for neighborhood happenings – you always seem to post things before other sources – but the nastiness of the posts lately have really turned me off. I, however, will continue to read and hope that others will do the same and realize that we can have differences and still discuss them with respect.
Thank you John. I had considered asking you to reign in one or two of the discussions lately, comments being made were increasingly ugly, but like you, I was hesitant to interfere with free speech – that said, and as you inferred, a lively discussion need not mean a license for adults to act like 2 year olds….
Amen!
Absolutely right John. Sometimes I think a reminder to some of the folks on the Hill – is necessary from time to time.
I’m all for lively discourse and have occasionally called someone out on a thread. I do think that some of the ideas touted on the Buzzy’s thread regarding the “changes” to CH that would come with a beer/wine license are alarmist and insane. I’ve had people disagree with me based on my comments on the blog, for example. That said, calling people out by name based on what they do “in the real world” is incredibly disrespectful. This goes for critiquing CHA individuals by name, commenting on people’s children, or vitriolic comments about certain architects. If someone makes a comment, they should expect a response.
Thanks, John. I think the same can be said about the way we treat one another outside of this blog. The disrespect I have witnessed and experienced at CHA meetings and in our neighborhood in recent months is disappointing.
We can do better!
Thanks for this post, John.
Thanks, John. I’m one of the people who check this site a few times a week to keep up with local issues. I usually don’t bother posting comments, specifically because I’ve seen it get a bit nasty. I admire your dedication to our neighborhood and I think you do a fabulous service by moderating this site.
John,
Any chance you could give a little more specifics about where you consider “the line” to be? Are we basically just turning this into “only say nice things” or is some debate still allowed? If the former, it’s going to be a pretty boring comment section. If the latter, are there particular hot buttons that we should make sure people don’t touch?
I realize I’m a bit more confrontational than most and I probably have crossed whatever line you’re referring to from time to time. Some suggestions on what those are might be helpful for the community.
In the interest of starting a discussion on guardrails, my personal rules of thumb have been:
1. Don’t make personal attacks or bring in things that are out of the context of the discussion.
2. Don’t call out non-public figures by name on here (public figures being elected or appointed officials of the city or candidates for, prominent business owners, CHA officials acting in an official capacity)
3. Don’t say anything I wouldn’t say in person.
Given the number of people I’ve pissed off, I suspect there’s one or two more folks would like to suggest and I’d be curious to know what they are.
No reason to let a few bad actors poison the well.
In this regard, John…I may have transgressed. I have great respect for you, and all you do in/for our community. It’s all too easy to be coaxed into some verbal wrastlin’ by “baiters & haters”, but we must resist and call upon our better natures. I will try not to heed the call up from my combustible Irish/German/Seminole blood.
Alex – how about for rule #4: “try to keep it civil” – I realize that might make things dull for some but not everyone who uses this site is looking for an altercation.
@13 – explain civil please? I’m seriously not trying to be a smart ass here but the definition of civil varies quite a bit by setting. Some specific examples would be helpful.
Would your typical presidential campaign speech be civil? How about a high school debate? Or are we holding the bar at a church ladies club “civil?” I’ve heard worse than almost anything on here in some past work places on a daily basis.
I’ll settle for the debate example – presidential, high school, NPR…you will be graded on points….
I try to approach it like i am talking to my mother, not my brother. He doesn’t mind if i tell him to “bite me” while she does. It’s a little different than a sports blog or anonymous political blog. We are all on this ship together.
While there’s nothing wrong with a call for civility in a space where civility rarely reigns (that would be “cyberspace” as it were), I’d like to express my thanks for this blog as it is – with a moderator who does not censor as a matter of principle.
Vitriol is unfortunately the norm in a medium where people need not fear repercussion. The futile attempts on many comment boards to censor unpopular opinion do nothing to limit bad feelings among commenters but have a chilling effect on the quality of argument expressed.
It says a lot that a blog with such a small regular commenter base generates such a smart exchange of ideas. That it comes at the cost of stinging barbs by the likes of people like Alex ( 🙂 ) is a price I think we should all like to pay!
I’ve always thought it better for folks to use their actual names — am I right that that helps with the civility of it all?
I’ve always resisted that, but I’m reconsidering.
Geoffrey – if you’re still up for that beer, let’s meet up this week. I think the delay at last night’s meeting is about to open shit up all over again unless we can bring the sides together. Would love to talk to you about a few ideas I had on that I’m hoping you could help with in your CHA capacity.
Drop me a line at sox45fan@hotmail.com and let’s plan something.
Right on, John. And although I respect the fact that this is a democratic blog (“people” being right there in the title) I’m in no way opposed to you removing (or not allowing) comments you deem offensive. It’s your thing.
BTW — mucho congratulations!
This blog is indeed a great asset to the Church Hill Community. If not for the notice on CHPN of Buzzy’s SUP being postponed until Oct.14, I along with others would have trekked on down to City Hall for naught.
Thank You John!!
I think people should use their real name on this blog not only for civility reasons, but it would also cut out some of the , “creative postings.”
So John,
If it is worth saying, own it and be accountable for what you say. A lot of stuff would not be posted if the person posting it could be identified!!
How do you force real names? Some are not members of social media so either you take them on their word that they are who they say they are or you make a requirement that they join social media to ‘prove’ who they are.
Other forums require one to become a member and have a rating system of the pseudnymed participants based on comment count or some other vetting process like that. Doesn’t really stop the uncivil comments though, unless you ban ‘unruly’ members…which sounds like a shitty job for the moderator.
There are several people on here who DO use their real names and still manage to be offensive. What do you do with them? Cut off their fingers so they can’t type?
My 2 cents is don’t fix what isn’t broken. We’re all adults here. If we can’t take someones nasty comments, we can leave the board, or ignore that person that makes the comments.
I wonder what Buddy has to say on this subject.
I don’t think its horrible to monitor posts. Most forums are monitored and comments that are outside the forum “rules” are stricken.
No cursing no name calling etc.
It could even be considered to be a “anti bullying” by some people and some may view it as censorship.
However you look at it, forums sometimes bring out the worst in people.
I’m still glad I chose not to live in Church Hill.
@ #18- in this case, many times it’s people using their real names that spew the most vitriol.
This is just too funny coming from #22-
“I think people should use their real name on this blog not only for civility reasons, but it would also cut out some of the , “creative postings.”
If it is worth saying, own it and be accountable for what you say. A lot of stuff would not be posted if the person posting it could be identified!!”
The only person on here, to my knowledge, that has verbally attacked a small child on this forum and who repeatedly tells lies about her neighbors. Using her real name hasn’t prevented her from being uncivil.
If I may make a suggestion on something that might make this forum more civil: can we all agree not to try to dredge up past posts that folks may have written in a different context?
While it often seems like a great idea, it’s usually done out of context and sets a “gotcha” tone that quickly elevates the discussion into an argument. It’s basically an attempt to “impeach the speaker”, which is among the weakest ways to move a debate along constructively.
If you have an issue with something somebody says on here, respond to it then and let it drop. Many of us do evolve in our thinking and many times the reason that comment you thought was so horrid was because you missed the humor or didn’t get the full background.
Discuss the issue at hand, not the flaws of the person you are discussing it with. I’d much rather engage in a pointed and spirited debate about a topic than have to read a bunch of posts about people whining about what they thought other people said a while back.
Put it another way – I bet even Jeffrey Dahmer and Ariel Castro have been right on some subjects. Going the route of trying to find fault with others doesn’t prove that your point is any more valid. I realize this has become standard for American political discourse these days but if you can’t find at least one thing you agree with and disagree with any given person on, the flaw is with your thinking not theirs.
John, as you consider how to manage comments here, I’d suggest taking a look at http://www.bringatrailer.com. I have no affiliation with the site, except that I enjoy cars.
They faced similar issues with their members (some personal attacks against sellers, typical stuff with people loving certain brands and hating others) and instituted a thumbs up/thumbs down system for rating comments based on helpfulness. Comments that are downvoted will be hidden from view unless the user chooses to show it themselves. In this manner there’s no true censorship as the content is still there, but if the community has found it to be nonconstructive then there’s a penalty.
Through this system I’ve noticed a sort of natural selection process, where the negative comments are much less frequent. Interestingly, they have no requirements for real names or social platform plugins to verified accounts either.
Threaded comments can also be helpful. The current system shows a flow of all comments based on time posted, but I’m sure we can all agree that occasionally some comments go off on tangents. Then those responses are shown within the larger conversation. Threads may help move those tangential conversations out of the main topic, as responses would populate separately.
But yeah, ultimately it’s about behavior of the users as these systems would fail if people choose to abuse it.
One area of concern are comments that feel too personal or as if they are airing someone else’s dirty laundry.
I say let people be creative with their handles. You will get a broader spectrum of opinions, more creativity and humor, just enforce a little civility. I for one would appreciate it. While I enjoy a heated coversation, there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed. I think most people can live with that.
I, for one, like using a handle. People who know me can absolutely figure out who I am, but folks who “google me” don’t have to know my neighborhood opinions.
I like the idea of nested comments though. It allows people to skip over conversations. NPR recently did this on their FB page and it makes for most pleasant reading and participation.
Though I have been out of the conversations lately – mostly because I am one of those who do get attacked, I believe that the use of REAL NAMES was a requirement when I joined this group nearly 10 years ago?
No, it won’t curtail people being uncivil by using them but will keep it down to a minimum because those who hide behind half names or monikers are not unlike a kid who throws a stink bomb in a locker then runs to hide to see what happens.
Nope, there’s never been more required than there is now.
Back in the beginning there was not even the basic delay of moderation, which sometimes allowed conversations to get going too heated too quickly.
I thought for sure John there was – just like we had to be approved (at least I was) and validated via email and could not use different names associated with your email – only one name per email. That has also changed?
Alex… outing people? I think those we have, you included, deserved to be dissed (architecture issues). But I would not say anything I would be ashamed put my name on to begin with so…
Posting anonymously or using a handle is, I think, especially important on this blog. There are a lot of people in this neighborhood that work for elected officials and the government or are married to folks who work for employers like those. Some of them may want to express their opinion but do not want to do it under their real name out of concern that people might assume their opinion to be shared by their employer, or out of concern that their employer may not appreciate them airing an opinion on an subject one way or the other. If this blog covered another area, I might feel differently, but situated so close to the Capitol, I would encourage this point to be given consideration before requiring real names.
Eric, I’d consider our good friends to be public figures given their status as our representatives on a committee. I’d probably keep quiet if it were a “layperson” submitting these designs. I see no contradiction there.
If I was forced to post my real name, I would not post at all. The “real name” thing DOES NOT stop people from being rude and most people with handles are not rude. A lot of people posting under their real names have been the biggest bullys here.
I have many reasons for wanting to use a a handle – all to protect my privacy and I really try hard to express my opinions while being mature and civil.
Posters simply need to remember to be polite! There is no way around this. I am glad for the moderation. I really hate it when the comments get too personal or nasty and feel like it reflects poorly on our neighborhood.
What you write in posts is important, but also how often you post as well. Some users of this site post 10+ times on almost every long comment stream, and I personally find that to be domineering. The worst is when there is a nice little comment stream going along, positive and uplifting, and then one of the domineering users comes in with a negative comment and shifts all the discussion to what she or he wants to talk about. Good discussion is not about one person disrupting conversations over and over again. Think about what that feels like in real life. “Lively discussion” does not equal being contrary and inserting your opinion into everything.
I would note that some posters who use their full names are some of the bigger bullies.
So……..people shouldnt have to divulge their real names because there are so many IMPORTANT people living in Church Hill who work in govt and industry? Is that what BAF is claiming? That posting nasty comments might justifiably reflect on the anonymous hater? Ok .thanks for the rationalisation. The next assertion is that using ones real name might curtail freedom of speech as another brave soul suggested? Well ,freedom of speech pertains to a citizens right to unreservably comment freely on their govt. It doesnt exist so that liitle Hilda can rag on the neighbor she hates without having the decency to say it to that neighbors face! Folks, after thirty years of working around people acting up ,all wasted and whatnot, I can truly say I have NEVER heard the prattling meanspirited bullshit come out of those drunks that I hear routinely posted on this site by my supposedly goodhearted neighbors. The instinct to act like a jackal is reinforced by the ready made cover of anonymonity. Parse it how you like, it is clinging to a pretense that savaging ones neighbors lifestyles,races, and tastes from behind a wall of mystery is the act of a patriotic adherent of “free speech”. Nobody signed the Declaration of Independence “Mr. Church Hill”. The various pen name type folks who populate this page have slowly given in to the temptation of venting their vitriol at no cost.The real danger is of course the cost of ones neighbors hearing the secret nastiness that infests your heart. If you can say it ,you can own it. Everything else is a sad rationalisation. Protestations and finger pointing are the tactics of despair. Sign your name …..or keep your comments to innocous subjects and quit pretending that your opinions matter to people who stand in the sunshine . To everyone who posts under their real name when participating in discussions of importance,thank you. To the unrepentant anonymous monopolisers….sorry that my condemnation of your comfortable arrogance ruffles that yellow streak running down your collective backs…..I converse with REAL people on Facebook. All opinions are welcome…….
No Buddy. Actually I’m claiming the exact opposite. I’m saying some posters in Church Hill may work for employers who would not appreciate their Church Hill-resident employee posting an opinion on a civic issue. Having a handle allows them to participate in a public forum without fear or concern of how their opinions might be reflect upon, or be received by, an employer.
Example. Let’s say I worked for the Governor (I don’t). I may want to comment on something controversial but not have my name on it because perhaps some might think that what I wrote reflects the opinion of my boss and I would prefer not have to deal with that. I’m not using a handle in that case because I think I’m important. Quite the opposite. I’m using one because I’m vulnerable to someone important. In other words, I may not be able to comment publicly because I’m in a position where doing so can create some havoc for my employment. It’s not uncommon for folks who work in and around government at lower levels to have restrictions placed upon them about what they can comment openly, and given the neighborhood’s proximity to things like the Capitol, people in that situation may live here and want to comment. A handle allows them to participate without running afoul of the boss.
Buddy, not everyone is in a position to express a legitimate opinion, even without vitriol, openly due to their employment situation or other reasonable instances. It’s wonderful that you can. Not everyone’s situation permits it. Not everyone using a handle does so to wield a flamethrower without repercussions.
@#41 Buddy, I like how you feel free to insult anyone who doesn’t agree with you, BECAUSE you use your real name. So if we all ‘came out of the shadows’, used our real names and hurled vitriol at each other, that would be a positive evolution to the site? Use of a real name on this site obviously doesn’t make people more considerate or civil, or hold them back from letting the insults fly, or hold them to a higher standard. You’re a prime example of this, Buddy. You’re a bully and your out and your proud about it. Your main reason for posting on this site (in post after post) is to belittle people for not using their real names !! If everyone started using their real names, we’d never hear from you!Though I will say your last post was a little more restrained than others I’ve read.
The bottom line is, people will be civil and considerate of their neighbors if they want to be, real names or not. It’s a choice we can make as participants on this forum, just as it’s a choice when we’re in line at the grocery store or driving in traffic or in any other public situation.
Treat other people like you’d like to be treated.
Signed, Erik Kunze.
P. Hammond is one of those a–holes but his foolish statements shouldn’t be edited. He keeps it “real” & entertaining.
*REMINDER*