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Six proposed small traffic circles
03/10/2014 9:40 AM by John M
I was forwarded what appears to be a recent plan for 6 “residential traffic calming improvements traffic circles at Chimborazo Boulevard, M Street, and S Street.” (PDF)
Anyone know anything about this?
TAGGED: roundabout
Those look a lot like the “warning radiation” symbols.
Great idea. Especially for M Street, which needs a lot of traffic calming. People fly down M Street. If it was up to me I would put them at every intersection. I think they look great and help make the intersections safer. However, I would like to see every circle treated the same in that all directions entering the circle would be required to yield. I live between to the two circles on N. 31st Street and think they are great.
They need to do the same for the Marshall Street drag strip starting at 23rd & Marshall heading West. Not sure the bus drivers would be happy however, considering they would no longer be able to motor through at 50+ mph.
I live near the 29th & Clay roundabout and love it…except that most people I encounter have no idea of traffic circle etiquette. I get the stink eye and horns when I’m in the traffic circle and someone is entering from a different direction. Or have to brake in the middle of the traffic circle because the person about to enter it has no intention of yielding. It would be nice if the circles included small signs indicating entering traffic must yield.
I haven’t been impressed with the current traffic circles on Chimborazo … they’re so small you can drive straight through without slowing down.
Back to the radiation concept…I think that would be more effective
Who is responsible for the plan? Will they seek input before going forward? The circles that surround Chimborazo Elementary are very dangerous – they do not slow down traffic at all, the confuse everyone, and the make it very hard to cross the street. With the stop signs, at least you know as a pedestrian where the cars were supposed to stop.
I agree with edg on the circles near Chimbo Elementary – I fear for my life going through them north-south in a car; the people going east-west don’t yield at all and are FLYING. I feel like they’ve almost encouraged people to speed up.
The traffic circle at 29th and Clay has a different set of signage than the circle at 29th and Marshall.
At Marshall, all vehicles are signed to yield. At Clay, only the North South traffic is signed to yield. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I agree. I love traffic circles but our community does not know how to use them. Not sure how to solve that problem – how do you reach the driving public with education?
I like the idea of new circles on M Street. However, I would really like to see yield signs placed at the 29th & Clay traffic circle for vehicles approaching from the west or east. I’ve nearly collided with a number of impatient/speedy drivers at this intersection.
Wouldn’t some yield signs help?
The circles on Marshall at Chimbo Elementary were a nice attempt to calm traffic but they don’t work due to the width allowed for the buses to move through. They’re so wide that anyone travelling east/west feels they have the right of way regardless of their distance from this intersection. They blow through them at 30 mph… they’re dangerous. Any car entering from the north/south is at risk of being barreled into. Unfortunately, the fix would be expensive as it would involve widening the center circle an then cutting into the sidewalk space to make a true barrier that one would need to drive around.
Is a traffic circle and a roundabout the same thing? To me 25th and M is a roundabout and I think it serves that intersection well. But those traffic circle (obsticles) near Chimbo elementary are confusing and just a nuisance.
Eventually every intersection will be traffic circles, even at alleys…
@ 14…they are generally the same. I agree, the circle at 25th and M is very effective since you literally have to steer through the curves of the circle…one must slow down. Bearing slightly to the right like the ones at Chimbo don’t work.
I learned to drive through traffic circles while in the West Indies, which works well with the heavy traffic flow. Was pleasantly surprised to find them becoming more common here in Richmond in the past 6 years. Hopefully, they’ll begin to include traffic circle etiquette in driving school (unless they already do? It’s been a while since I earned my license).
The circles are great. They just need to be bigger! The one at Jefferson, M, and 25th is pretty good. These are much too small.
I realize sidewalks are a concern, but what if the crosswalks were X shaped and went through the circle? Kind of like a mini-park? These areas aren’t so high traffic that people would get stuck in the middle, are they? Would this bring the cars/vehicle traffic to close to buildings?
The one on Chimborazo shouldn’t be hard to make bigger – at least one part of the corner doesn’t even have a proper sidewalk
The one on S and 31st (page 10) could also be bigger, as the intersection is oversized and/or irregularly shaped anyway.
Oh, having just looked at pictures of the M and 25th circle, I guess they could just set the crosswalks further back. But still, it seems like “ovals” or other tricks to make these things bigger would be helpful
The width of some of M Street up there is as wide or wider than the busiest RVA downtown thoroughfares but with fewer parked cars, so people go fast without even thinking about it. The hypothetical circles would work best as a part of many tools that should be deployed in overall Church Hill traffic calming. DPW should use the circles together with denser plantings of street trees and painted (or different material like brick or stone) crosswalks, both of which have been proven to psychologically cause drivers to slow down. The slurry and pea gravel everyone in St. John’s loves to hate is another calming tool – bumpy roads slow drivers down.
I admit it’s nice to cruise down M without stopping, but there are so many kids around playing near the street that we do need to slow the traffic down a little. I am not a fan of these circles at all, though. They are too small, functioning less as roundabouts and more as fancy obstacles. At Chimbo and M, people do not yield when they should, or they stop anyway when no other cars are around just to make sure no one is going to come blowing through. The circles might be pretty, but if quality of life is really what’s at stake, a four way stop seems more user friendly. Personally, I have loathed the circle near me since moving here and would like to see it changed to a four way stop, so I was surprised to see there are plans to actually erect more circles.
I’m doing a story on this for 8News today. Would anyone care to comment on camera about how it is to use the circles already there and what might make the area better? Just shoot me an email at twronka@wric.com. Thanks!
I mostly commute by bike and foot and watch folks blow through the two circles on Marshall, as well as the stop signs on Broad daily. People speeding their cars towards other people walking with their dogs, babies (yes – babies!), or even groups of people standing near flashing blue lights. If our police officers won’t enforce traffic laws to protect our safety – who will? http://chpn.net/news/2014/03/03/a-curious-incident-on-broad-street_32306/
I don’t know the solution to impede reckless driving in this neighborhood, but I’m convinced it’s not more road furniture.
If you want the cars to stop, you need stop signs. The circles really do make the problem worse. We do not need “traffic calming” devices around the school – we need “traffic stopping” devices. This is the only safe solution for pedestrians.
The ones they have on Marshall have to be small because of the busses. I really don’t know how they plan on installing that new one on Marshall and Chimbo – the bus has to make a turn there and will never be able to get around the circle. Where did these plans come from? Who is pushing this?
those circles suck I have them in front of my house and whose ever driving the fastest thinks they have the right of way
Edg – I disagree with you about needing “traffic stopping” rather than “traffic calming”, but I totally agree that the both the Marshall/Chimbo and the M/30th Street circles are at turns for the Rt 1&2 and Rt 45 buses, respectively. The buses will not be able to make the required 90 degree turns with the circles. I looked at GRTC’s planned route changes and none of these buses seem to have re-routes planned for the areas of the proposed circles.
Also, the one at Chimbo and Marshalls REMOVES a 4-way stop to replace it with the circle. Calming traffic with no other mechanism to control it on a street is one thing, but actually REMOVING stops signs to place the circles is reckless and dangerous.
I have been trying to find out how this project came to be all morning, and cannot get in touch with anyone. However, the Richmond Public Works website said it could have been suggested by a citizen.
Has anyone else had any luck contacting anyone about these circles?
So a traffic circle, roundabout, whatever you want to call it, exists in nearly every European city. Yes, this is new to America, so we are granted a certain accepted level of cognitive dissonance. But for God’s sake, wake up Church Hill! You are at the forefront in RVA of an otherwise generally accepted traffic calming strategy. Claim it as your own, and make it a sign of quirky CH life. Differences are what drive the attraction to our neighborhood. Embrace it, don’t discourage it!
New Traffic Circles Coming to Church Hill
http://www.wric.com/story/24947557/new-traffic-circles-coming-to-church-hill
“The cost is $85,000, which comes from an annual capital improvement budget. If all goes to plan, construction could begin in about a month. “
I am afraid our driving populace is too self centered, distracted, or just plain stupid to understand the concept of traffic circles. I would rather see 4 way stops than these things. Especialy by the school.
I emailed Cynthia Newbille about this and Samuel Patterson, City Council Liaison, responded by forwarding my question for more information to Maritza Feliz-Reyes at Dept of Public Works, who then responded that Barbara Branch at the Church Hill Association was given this information and was supposed to have forwarded it for the CHA to review. That’s as far as my email has gotten, haven’t heard anything as far as public discussions. I wonder if there were any studies done by the city to determine if the existing circles have been effective, or if this is a knee-jerk solution to the many accidents that have happened in the Church Hill North area, especially on M Street as a result of speeding cars and buses and stop signs on the cross streets blocked by trees on the sidewalk that need to be cut back.
In response to the concerns about busses – if the actually lane/traffic carrying portion of the circle is wide enough, a bus can manage just fine. The issue is that if the circle is that wide, it cuts into the sidewalks at the corners (which also costs more to rebuild) and forces a redesign of the crosswalks.
But really, a roundabout it something that you drive around, not something that you swerve to avoid. If they can’t or want do it properly, maybe they just shouldn’t do it.
At the very least, they could save a lot of money and just stick oversized planters/flower pots in the middle of the street rather than physically building anything.
Church Hill Association is not the association for this map.
@35. Seriously? Let the CHA decide what’s best for M Street? Looks like someone just got thrown under the bus.
Barbara Branch is not with Church Hill Association; she is with Church Hill Central to my knowledge and is very dedicated and thorough.
Barbara is on the CHA board.
Why in the heck does the CHA get to decide if they remove the four way stop signs right by my house? Why is it that public works keeps building things without seeking neighborhood input and IGNORING the input when it goes against the project? This is what happened with the last batch of circles by the school, AND what happened when they built those pentanque courts over everyone’s objections except the pentanquers. What do you have to do to have a voice around here?
I am trying to find a contact number for Barbara – can anyone help? I’ve already contact Newbille and Tom Flynn from public works (he did not return my call by the way).
I received a letter of March 14, 2014 concerning the proposed residential traffic calming improvements (traffic circles on Chimborazo Blvd, M St., and S St.). Comments are due March 21, 2014 and should be sent to Maritza.Reyes@richmondgov.com
Having reviewed the detailed plans that were provided on CHPN.
If the plan is to go forward with the traffic circles I propose that the community have more input as to the landscaping that is proposed. Nandina and Crepe Mrytle all over the city and there are so many more species of plants and trees that could be selected which would increase the biodiversity and aesthetics of these circles. I wonder if community groups would even volunteer to sponsor a traffic circle to ensure that fall/springs bulbs, plants, and the tree is maintained. I know I would love the opportunity!
If the traffic circles are to go forward, please give those of us in the community an opportunity to participate in the plant selection and upkeep. An application process, lottery, and planting scheme could be approved by the city even. This would be a cost saving measure that would transfer the costs of plants and maintenance to citizen groups or an individual like me that loves gardening and will drive past these circles every day. What a wonderful way to bring the community together and maybe even foster a “Traffic Circle Garden Competition” for the most beautiful traffic circle in Richmond each year?
I look forward to hearing from you and look forward to the opportunity to participate in growing and beautifying the city, one traffic circle at a time.
I live on the 3300 block of E. Marshall so one of these circles will be at the end of my block. I just recieved notice from the City about them via a letter in the mail yesterday. A response/comments are due in 2 days…March 21. I wonder if I put it in the mail will it get there in time. 2 days notice…what a joke! I think these circles are completely useless. I and others blow right past them on Marshall because there is no incentive to slow down if no other traffic is around. I think they make intersections way more dangerous than people “california rolling” through stop signs.
Considering that this project is going to be built like so many other projects that the city wants regardless of comments from the residents, we might as well try to make lemonade.
Most of the comments on this issue seem to be people complaining that the circles don’t work; well that may be correct, but they are going to be built anyway. So let’s actually take a positive approach and think of good ideas like that presented by Lee Crowell.
I also received one of those letters. The first thing I said in my response was Thank You for soliciting our input. The second thing I said was that there might be a few speeders on Marshall but it doesn’t seem there is a high enough volume of traffic on that street to justify the expense. I don’t know how much a roundabout really costs but I do know a simple speedbump comes in around $5000, so, it wouldn’t be cheap. Then there are the city buses and emergency vehicles needing to get around them, and yes, the fact that people fail to yield and they basically replace a problem with a problem.
Planting flowers in them is a nice idea, but I’m not sure we really need this thing at all. Do we?
Isn’t speeding on Broad up to the 32nd street stop a bigger problem?
Transportation dollars
I strongly urge everyone to contact our Council person or Tom Flynn from public works. We had a long conversation about the circle. Although he never told me how the project came about, he did say that about the only way to stop it would be from public input. And – some circle projects have been cancelled because the neighborhood was not supportive of the idea.
Cynthia Newbille: (804)646-3012
Tom Flynn: (804) 646-3455
I do not accept that these circles are a foregone conclusion. The folks behind this effort really need to know how we feel and respond to that.