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Loving Lemons moves to Carytown
07/28/2014 10:55 AM by John M
Open since last November, the gift shop etc. Loving Lemons has closed up their spot at 2709 East Marshall Street and moved to Carytown:
Loving Lemons Gifts was introduced in the Fall of 2013, when we first opened our doors in Churchill, Virginia. In July of 2014, after much debate and tears, we closed our Churchill Location and moved 20 minutes away to Carytown, Virginia. Our move allowed us to expanded from 600 sq feet to 1000 sq feet and […]
I’ve heard that the Marshall Street space formerly occupied by has already been claimed.
I thought Cyclus was not renewed to the owner’s inappropriate business decisions. Didn’t the original article say he gave two days notice a year before his lease was up, then changed his mind, then wanted out again then changed his mind again. I believe it was his lack of business and business skills that made him want out in the first place not the owner’s daughter. That aside, whoever goes in next… I hope they have better luck and the NIMBY’s at least give them a chance before they start “more issues”. That also aside, I also hope LLG has success in Carytown. I think their main issue was that Churchill was not ready for retail, but maybe in a few years we will be.
What a shame Cyclus had to move for this.
When I visited, they were closed too, although it was between the posted hours. I will try again in Carytown. I like the odea of ice cream store, but Chocolates by Kelly is selling Gelati Celesti, which is the best ice cream ever.
@3 and @7, I never found them open either, and I went during posted hours.
Didn’t they received a grant to help open, purchase a POS system?
If they don’t stay open for a year, does any of the grant need to be refunded?
Shame. Our move was for the best, but it was costly and stressful. Life goes on.
I also tried visiting once, during posted open hours, on a weekend… and they were closed.
Oh, ice cream! Yea! 🙂
They were rarely open. Every time in went by (numerous times, during posted hours) they were closed.
I really wanted to support them as I thought it was a great idea in Church Hill. Sadly after more than 20 attempts to shop there during posted open hours, just to find them yet again closed, I gave up. Hopefully Carytown will be okay with the random hours.
Add me to the list of people who tried to visit this store on multiple occasions during the posted hours only to find it closed. I don’t think LL’s closure is indicative of whether CH is ready for retail since the store was rarely open – and it is apparent from the comments here that a fair number of people were willing to frequent it.
For the people that mentioned an ice cream shop, went to Chocolates by Kelly last night for ice cream. Delicious!
When Church Hill gives you lemons, move to Carytown
http://www.richmondbizsense.com/2014/07/31/when-church-hill-gives-you-lemons-move-to-carytown/
Ms. Kellman says ‘Church Hill isn’t ready for retail’. I also tried to shop at LL and could never find it open, even during the posted business hours. I sent a contact via the LL web site about an item I’d seen in the LL display window and wanted to get as a gift – never got a response. I believe that Ms. Kellman is the one that is not ready for retail.
Do the Kellman’s have to repay the grant monies they received?
If you read the grant website, the owner fulfilled all of the qualifications… As the grant was for 2013 and you may notice it is July 2014. In fact this year’s grants are due next month for any looking into the grant for 2014.
Also, I went in several times and they were open. In fact my wife even went in when they were closed, the owner saw her looking through the window and let her in… I believe the owner lives near by. Also, I have personally talked to the owner and she mentioned sometimes being open for days with no one coming in. That why the hours changed, she was trying to work part time around the empty store to make ends meet.
All that aside, I think the original article also stated she owned a website for over 10 years, so I believe she does know retail.
As I said early Churchill is not ready for retail and I respectfully disagree that less then 10 people on a blog saying they were not open does not give a true idea of the owner’s ability or whether they would have enough sales to make rent. Even if the 10 people got in, these 10 would not buy enough to pay the $1200 rent or water/electric. In order for the owner to pay rent and all other bills, as well as well as her personal bills, and cover cost of merchandise sold, she would have to gross over $7500 a month. So I again state I don’t believe churchill is ready for retail, because no retail shop could get that much money even with the commenters and another 100 people. Unless every customer spent at least $75.00 every visit.
James,
As someone who also went to LL several times, I will respectfully disagree with you. I very much feel church hill is ready for retail, others such as era, chocolates by Kelly come to mind, but it has to be the right fit. In the case of LL, it just wasn’t the right fit. That being said I wish them well in their new location.
I think you just proved my point…. No one knows but the owner of the stores about Churchill and it’s ability to do retail, especially not commenters on a blog. Oh, and you are mistaken about era and Chococlates by Kelly. Era does not make enough in the shop to support it. The owner Diana works full time at Dutch and Company and has a website. Also, her retired mom works there for free and her rent was a fourth of Loving Lemons. She mostly uses the location for pick up… And she had a $10,000 grant also. If you actually know the owner of Chocolates by Kelly then you know she could not sustain business so as a last ditch effort they brought in ice cream and drinks. This is also her second location and her other location plus website actually supports this failing location. But I guess it is more fun to sing sour grapes then ask real questions. Or even easier to take one quote out of an article and make it mean the world. I think the real issue is it is sad they are leaving not happy they are gone.
@James Sorry but, I disagree. Again, I tried visiting the store – and during the middle of the day, when they were supposed to be open, they were closed. It’s not a coincidence that others are voicing similar experiences.
By not being open, they’re losing their most important marketing tool – word of mouth. Already, you have ~8 people on this blog who had a negative experience. We can’t say positive things about LL because we had no way to support the business. And we can’t recommend others check it out, either.
I’m with James on this one. Other than some real high demand categories that people need everyday like food, or a shop that is unique enough that it would bring folks from a broader radius, we aren’t ready for retail to succeed here yet. I’m not saying this because I want it to be that but because the math just doesn’t work when you have a relatively small and fragmented market with very little foot traffic.
*Church Hill
James
Thank you for your informative post.
People say things on this “community” blog that they would never have the balls to say if they could be recognized or identified. Anonymity does little to encourage getting your facts correct.
People do not come to Church Hill to Shop.
People go to Carytown to Shop!
I suspect that some of the snarky comments are made not so much because of knowledge but because of who the owner and proprioter of Loving Lemons are. They have both been attacked on this forum before.
There are Virginia Enterprise Zones within the city, but I don’t think the east end is one. It would be great if we could get a little funding as other areas have:
http://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/index.php/community-partnerships-dhcd/downtown-revitalization/enterprise-zone.html
There is opportunity here. A hardware store, a hairdresser, a book store…those are things an every day person like me could patronize. I just don’t have a daily need for interior design. Those are the types of businesses I hope to see open.
Let’s just leave Loving Lemons (Church Hill) as a poor conceived, poorly executed business endeavor; and wish them luck in Carytown.
But the spirit of the SEED (Supporting East End Entrepreneurship Development) Awards Program should be taken into account. This program is specifically aimed at the 23223 zip code. If you take the money for this purpose (advertising, fixtures and POS system – as in the LL case), and you decide to pack up and leave only 8-9 months in to it, I would think it would only be correct to give back the funding. At the very least, it would be the classy thing to do. Bon Secours surely was not trying to promote business development in Carytown when they awarded this grant in November 2013. And if the fixtures and POS system is in Carytown…not trying to be snarky here – just hoping Miss Kellman realizes this and does the right thing.
If we want to talk class… Telling strangers what to do with their own money does not make the list. Also, the grant was for 2013 not 2014. The grant if you read the website has requirements none of include giving back the money in any circumstance. Also, their money was for advertising and pos system. Not fixtures. They used an app for sales so most of the money went towards advertising. They followed the rules and they got the grant. The grant only requires after they get it, is that they be open the year of the grant which was last year not year. This whole grant question which is no ones business but the owner’s and the grant givers is sour grapes. It’s not our money, so it’s not our place to comment. As someone else said…. Do the right thing… So don’t talk about people’s money.
James,
Really?!! What if all of the other recipients decided, after taking the SEED money, to close shop and re-open in Jackson Ward, Southside, or the West End…would that adhere to the spirit of the program?
This program is nothing short of AWESOME! Gaming the system is not really classy in my eyes…maybe, to you though. There may be no stipulation on the return of those funds, but I believe it’s the right thing (the honorable thing) to do.
According to the announcement of the awards, Loving Lemons got the grant for “Advertising, fixtures and POS system.”
http://chpn.net/news/2013/11/12/bon-secours-awards-50000-to-local-businesses-for-third-year_30080/
But that is beside the point, (I don’t care if they bought tissues and lollipops with the money) the integrity of this fine program lies in the development of businesses in the East End, not Carytown or anywhere else. What is so hard to understand about that?
James,
For someone who knows so much about this area, you’d think you’d know that it is 2 words (Church Hill). Look – I don’t profess to know everything about every business here including what they pay for rent & overhead (unlike you) but I do know that other businesses are making a go of it here & for that I applaud them.
You seem to be taking a lot of these comments personally, not sure of your connection, but please re-read the posts. I’ve not seen one person commenting about being “happy they are gone”, but I’ve seen several, including my own, expressing sadness & wishing them well in their new location. I like that idea though. I’m going to start saying middle school spanish 101 wasn’t ready for me.
Jean – no one is confusing Church Hill with Carytown from a shopping perspective, but more & more people are coming here to grab a bite to eat, walk around & enjoy the views thanks to the wonderful things our little neighborhood has to offer & to me it seems that some smaller boutique style shops could add to that list.
@James Check out http://chpn.net/news/2013/11/12/bon-secours-awards-50000-to-local-businesses-for-third-year_30080/
SEED 2013 Funds were announced on 11/12/2013 – it hasn’t even been a year yet. And it’s listed use is for “advertising, fixtures, and POS system”.
@ katzenjaammer – a hardware store is a GREAT idea!
Spirit… Really? There is no spirit involved. There are rules, laws even ethics to a point but nowhere is there actual spirit involved in any grant application. There is only spirit in your mind. If all you needed was spirit everyone would get a grant. They don’t because you need structure, a business plan, your own funding, education, a adviser and more. Loving Lemons had all and that’s why they got the grant. It’s not easier to get and over 50 were turned down because they were not prepared. Businesses fail even with a grant. At least Loving Lemons is fighting to succeed and changing paths. Aside from that… To correct a few issues: I didn’t say what their grant included… I said after talking to the owner I know what the grant was used for. Also, I only stated things from conversations I was personally involved in, not from what strangers said to me in gossip or they said on a blog comment section. As for the question of leaving, according to the grant program itself once the grantee gets the grant they can leave. The grant does not dictate a forced location in church hill. The point of the grant according to the grant website itself is so businesses would try church hill before going/going directly to more populated areas. Every grant winner is within their right to take the grant and leave after the year. So whether you like it or not… Loving Lemons was within their right and your so called spirit. They tried to make it work and it didn’t. So they are moving. Also, I don’t know about you but I would say if we seriously considering honor as option in life, it’s more honorable to do what Loving Lemons did which is make a change to succeed rather then fail. then it is to comment about strangers on a blog and hide behind an initial. At least loving lemons is standing out in the world and admitting their failure and changing course. I don’t think the same can be said of someone afraid to back comments up with a real name. Furthermore, I think all of the interest is more bitterness at Kellman’s and the quote about church hill not being ready or retail, then actual knowledge of the business itself. Loving Lemons won’t defend itself; So why are we neighbors up in arms over their leaving. All these comments are really about neighbors being upset that Ms. Kellman dare say we won’t ready for retail. If Era closed tomorrow…. And only had their second location which is in Carytown, no one would ask them to give the $10,000 grant back. Or wpa the $15,000 they got. Same with any other grant winner. If she wasn’t a Kellman would you even care?
Unlike restaurants, I wonder if retail doesn’t simply work better in clusters. Loving Lemons was basically on its own. If you didn’t know it was there, it would not be the easiest place to stumble across because why would you be there unless you noticed it going into WPA or maybe Dutch?
There are a couple of commercial buildings on the block Loving Lemons was located. If someone could rehab all of them and begin marketing them together so as to create some retail “critical mass” I think individual stores might have a better chance to develop foot traffic that feeds one another. I mean there is a reason why malls and shopping centers exist–they create critical mass for each other. Until we can incubate some areas to create that critical mass, I think you will have a series of little stores that are not food related that open and close because on their own, there is not enough traffic to make it.
Just my two cents.
All hail @BAF. I must say that was said perfectly. I 100% agree.
A hardware store would be a great addition to the neighborhood. I hate driving across town for supplies and I bet a lot of others feel the same. The only challenge there would be finding a building big enough to make a good profit from. There’s that one on 25th past the post office but other than that I don’t think we have anything that has the space.
I agree with @BAF. Church hill does not have the foot traffic. But with more development… our little town will be amazing.
For what it’s worth, I have no idea who the Kellman’s are, & agreed a hardware store would be excellent. I can’t tell you how many trips to Lowe’s I make on the weekends!
@34
“James”,
Oh my goodness…I’m speechless. Your prose…really insightful (maybe, too “insightful”). Mmhm…
For me a small retail cluster might include the following:
–A small pharmacy/general merchandise retailer like a CVS with a footprint similar to the CVS downtown in the Ironfronts building. A national retailer being involved in that way would give credibility and security to a project without overwhelming it.
–A dry cleaner. Why Puritan or Handcraft are not in the neighborhood as it gentrifies is mystifying to me.
–A walk-in Patient First style clinic for folks with insurance. The neighborhood has arguably the best vet in town, so it would seem there is enough clientele with the income and or insurance to use a walk-in facility of this type for immediate needs.
–An inexpensive place to eat. We have become foodie central and that’s great. But a casual, family-friendly place to get some breakfast or some ice cream or a quick sandwich, would be welcome. Farmhouse does some of that, but this is something again in a retail cluster.
–A small pet supply retailer. Think along the lines of a PJ Petts in Carytown where all the animal owners in Carytown (each of which regularly loses their pets based on this board) could go for some food, litter, etc.
–Maybe a consignment/thrift store. This could have lower overhead, appeal to the broader neighborhood demographic and yet be kind of hip.
–A small hardware store like Alex mentions. Perhaps Pleasants would consider a small footprint “basics” outlet since they are already in Richmond?
We need the basics here with convenient hours and a convenient location. We have the population to begin to sustain these sorts of retailers. Bring that level of convenience in, and more will begin to happen.
Again, just my two cents.
@41. If all the stores you mentioned were on 25th Street, north of the Davita Dialysis Center, would you walk there to shop? Do you think your neighbors would?
What if some of those stores were on Nine Mile Road, closer to the Hospital or towards I64? Would you go there before Carytown? Do you think your neighbors would?
G. You too can be “insightful” if you read the grant website or talked to your neighbors… But then they might know your name and you would have to stand behind your words. I know it’s scary but neighbors are really friends you have not met yet. Try it… Talk to your neighbors.
@42. I live less than two blocks from 25th and Venable. If there were some decent stores there? Sure, I would. Why not? As for my neighbors? Why would walking there be any different than walking to Alamo or Union Market?
That said, I was also thinking more about the area around Lemons with my comment since that is where the store that was where the subject of the story was located. But it could be anywhere in neighborhood where it would be appropriate to site it.
I might go up 25th. But I’d really like to see it on start on Broad.
I have also wished for some awesome secondhand stores -not “precious vintage”- $285 fifties cocktail dresses no one can fit into- but jeans and records and stuff everyday people can buy.
I would absolutely not go up on Nine Mile. It’s dirty and depressing….and they cut your catalytic converters off….
As I have stated many times before and others already know, these business buildings dotted around Church Hill and other local communities were Mom and Pop stores built in an era before super markets, Wal-Marts, and the automobile. Before the Civil War Church Hill was “the” place to live if you were of upper class income and people were not afraid to walk within a block or two to buy bread, meat, dry goods, hardware, etc… or take a trolley to get there. Parking was not an issue.
Advance 100 years and you have poverty, slums, high crime, and much of Church Hill boarded up before the 1980s when investors have some foresight and try and restore the area but not without the stigma going away. When the White Flight happened so many of these small business fronts continues floundering and no one wanted to move into the area after moving out towards Carrytown or points West.
Now the buildings are dilapidated, in hands of owners who don’t want to play ball and fix them up or sell to new interests for legitimate businesses. The city has not made any efforts to promote the historic aspects of Church Hill and the one and only main attraction, St. John’s Church, is not enough to sustain a historic neighborhood via tourist trade so there is no foot traffic. No tourists wandering off the beaten path as you look down the numbered streets from Broad all you see are homes so they have no idea a block or two away there are businesses buildings.
Set aside grants and other issues, like someone said unless you get someone in with a big name and/or backing to renovate a strip of buildings at once then you don’t have much to work with. Keep in mind these buildings on Marshall Street are basically one room and most are very small in size so limited in what can go in them. So far I have not seen a long lived nor legitimate business go into those storefronts behind the empty 401 N 27th building across from LL. There is a ethnic only Barber Shop and has been one on and off for years but see zero traffic so have no idea how they even stay in business? The other has a second hand thrift shop but again, see no one in it and always closed. The other store front remains empty. All were built c.1905 and are one very small room deep and in years past did not pass building codes for occupancy. A total waste and not a good example for outsiders to see.