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A petition for traffic calming elements on Franklin Street
A petition has been launched urging the city to install traffic calming elements on Franklin Street:
We would like to propose a solution to the traffic traveling too fast on East Franklin Street. Although East Franklin doesn’t see a lot of traffic during the course of the day, a small number of cars do accelerate over the speed limit once reaching the top of the hill from 25th Street eastbound and after passing through the stop sign at the corner of Libby Hill Park westbound. Children and dog walkers in the park would benefit from having the security of traffic calming elements.
At night time, the streets turns to a race track.
There are alternatives to stop signs (which decrease the value of the historical feel and importance of the area, suggesting the risks) and speed bumps. Bulbouts and roundabouts are not only effective in managing speed but also beautify and differentiate the street itself and the community. Bulbouts can be designed in a way where they have little impact on space for street parking and can be designed as planters for flowers.
This petition is to install a roundabouts between East Franklin 26th and 29th Streets. Another roundabout at East Grace and 29th would greatly enhance the beauty of 29th between East Broad and the soldier’s monument.
I want a zen rock garden…that is calming. Or perhaps a meditative waterfall.
None of these are particularly historically accurate. Just put a plain old stop sign.
Seriously?? “There are alternatives to stop signs (which decrease the value of the historical feel and importance of the area, suggesting the risks)” just shaking my head over here. No one understands the traffic circles, so those are not a good idea unless one plans on promoting some educational aspect so people can figure it out. Europe which is quite historical in some parts 🙂 has stop signs and it does not appear to decrease the historical feel. With regard to “suggesting the risks” all I can say to that is what the heck??
If you must put something there let it be stop signs, please.
How about the police heavily enforcing traffic laws for a period of time? I know they have better things to do, but this might remind all of us that there are such things as speed limits, crosswalks and stop signs.
I have not witnessed high amounts of speeding in this area (certainly not like Broad at Chimbo Park) but have seen almost everyone not pay attention to the four-way stop signs at 29th and Franklin.
I would bet that enforcement of existing traffic laws (and the accompanying fines) would go a long way towards decreasing infractions.
Roundabouts like on Marshall are death traps and stop signs that are in place are totally disregarded, so I doubt more of these would be effective.
I agree that circles or round a outs are very dangerous things in Richmond. Speed bumps are too small. But, what about speed humps which are much wider than bumps and can be also used for crossing areas.
While there may not be a lot of traffic now, wait until Stone Brewery has an event and people shoot up off Williamsburg Road, through Sugar Bottom and down Franklin. That will be a preferred short cut to avoid all the traffic on Main
Wish there was a way to counter this proposal. While I will say there is definitely speeding on this road, there are a lot of reasons why it is a bad solution:
1) The problem isn’t limited to Franklin between 26th and 29th, there is speeding all over Richmond. Spending city money and effort on something like a bumpout/traffic circle/etc. is not useful. Look at the cost of the traffic circle over at Fairfield, wasn’t it like $700,000?
2) A stop sign provides a full solution to the problem, it’s cost-effective and what the HECK does it do to decrease the historical feel and importance? It’s a safety issue, not a visual one.
3) As the Floyd Avenue in the Fan proposal found out, you lose quite a few parking spots where you put these bulbouts, just something to think about. I would venture to guess that folks who live on Franklin wouldn’t be as excited to have to potentially (potentially, not necessarily) compete for fewer parking spots
Don’t overcomplicate things, throw a stop sign up at 27th, and all will be fixed.
People run stop signs.
A good read http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm and you do not need to sign. We are ok with that as a couple without kids. Just thought it could be good for others. And, as a European, thought it would be nice, forgetting how different it is.
I’m a little surprised at how resistant to change parts of the community seem to be. All kinds of traffic calming elements work elsewhere in the world. It does not have to be a roundabout; it could include the wider speed humps one neighbor suggested. If you consider the type of driver that races down Franklin (or around Richmond generally), these will be the same drivers who would run a stop sign. Traffic calming elements prevent that possibility. I’m optimistic about human beings and believe, in time, all can learn to adapt to something new, something beyond a stop sign.
@Bragda
People do run stop signs. Of course, you’re pointing to the fact that there probably isn’t a single perfect option out there. I think we agree with you that people speed on this road, and are glad you bring up this point, but to pour city resources into building roundabouts doesn’t seem to me to be the best solution. Have you considered some of the potential drawbacks of something like this (some of which are listed above in the comments)?
Also, there are a myriad of issues in simply linking an article that talks generically about the benefits of roundabouts. It’s a study that doesn’t necessarily apply to every situation. It also is talking about comparing a traffic light to a roundabout, where we’re suggesting a stop sign. It also is talking about a large roundabout versus a small “bulbout” that you are referring to above (like the ones on Marshall).
John can probably find plenty of articles he’s posted on CHPN, but people are going to speed wherever there is a chance to. A few weeks ago there was an accident on Marshall because people ran into each other at a bulbout. And the traffic circle completed in North Church Hill (can’t remember exactly where, 9 mile?) cost at least $700K. It just doesn’t make sense.
At the end of the day, in taking the step to post this on change.org, you have to be comfortable with the fact that people won’t necessarily agree with you, and in this case I feel that not enough thought was put into the ramifications. I hope others in the neighborhood agree.
A circle for EVERY 4-way stop in Richmond!! It’s as if we are completely obsessed with them.
I agree with R6 Mike is right. Issue a few tickets and word will get out to everyone in church hill that they mean business and it should calm down.
I mean, you live in a city… People speed. There’s noise. Won’t someone stop the madness!
@Gregory
I don’t think people are resistant to change. I think Mary is making a point that this doesn’t seem to be well-thought out, at least enough to take the step to ask others to sign a petition. If you only cite a Washington state website talking about a few studies done for traffic roundabouts vs. traffic lights, I wouldn’t say that’s all the homework that needs to be done.
I do think the speed hump would be another idea that could work here, but roundabouts seem too cost-prohibitive.
I think a roundabout on Franklin Street is not a good idea – too expensive, for starters, and the street is not all that wide. And what is the problem with stop signs, I fail to understand how they “decrease the value of the historical feel and importance of the area”. Huh? Can anyone explain that in plain language, please?
I suggest that whoever started this petition start with a plea to the folks at First Precinct to enforce the speed limit, as I’m in agreement that a few tickets might serve to calm things down without further expense. While they are at it, they can enforce the existing stop signs on Franklin at 29th, and Grace at both 28th and 29th.
Look guys, even if it is a stop sign..whatever works to stop the speeding. I did a research on traffic and not the mentalities and did something about it. Don’t sign if you do not like it, simple as that. And create petition for traffic signs. DO, do not talk.
Unfortunately, many of the comments have focused on roundabouts. Maybe it would be more productive to steer the conversation to what is known as traffic calming. In my first post, I agreed with the comment about the use of a SPEED HUMP, for example. The point is that other societies manage to successfully implement and adapt to innovative traffic solutions — they have moved beyond the stop sign and dependence on traffic tickets. But if we are not a society that can manage change and progress, then we have to accept that, I guess. If we are not prepared to investigate what the real costs are (and assume they are unaffordable), then we must accept speeding drivers and the consequences. It’s easiest to criticize and never change. We can stick with that.
I am now very wary of taking Clay and Marshall Streets past 28th street at all–the way cars blow through those roundabouts without even looking is frankly terrifying. I think it was safer before with the stop signs.
If roundabouts were to be installed along the stretch of Franklin Street between 25th and the park, I feel like it would be MORE dangerous, not less. And I don’t think it would slow traffic any–it doesn’t seem to on Marshall (I challenge someone to spend a day monitoring the roundabouts there and get a tally of cars that ignore it completely).
To compare with Old Town Alexandria or Georgetown-practically every corner in those historic areas is a 4-way stop because otherwise it would be chaos. Doesn’t seem to decrease the historic flavor, at least to me.
@16 there are ways to ask for stop signs, the city has established certain rules. I would imagine that would also apply to roundabouts. I want to remind you that a call to the First Precinct with a plea for enforcement of speed limits and stop signs might be more effective than putting something out on change.org.
I no longer live on Franklin, but I did for twenty years and people were complaining all that time about speeding cars.
During the seven years we lived on Franklin in the little yellow house east of Libby Hill Park, there were three major hit and runs. First, a man ran over the corner of Franklin & 29th and totaled our parked car. Another night, a drunk took out a young tree we planted in the tree well. On the third occasion, someone took out part of the brick wall in our front yard, stopping just a few feet from our living room before fleeing into the forest.
For years, morning commuters have been speeding up Franklin to cut around Main. It’s a significant amount of traffic and they are going way too fast.
I find it really refreshing to see someone actually propose a solution — any solution — for change they want to see. Thanks for starting an important conversation.
The problem is that the miniroundabouts are NOT traffic circles. When you approach a traffic circle, you yield, whereas the miniroundabouts all appear to be designed to give right of way/priority to one street over the other where two streets cross.
This causes confusion and distress because people mistakenly expect traffic to behave as it would at an actual roundabout and it doesn’t.
I stopped at that intersection several times this week and really paid attention to the people who did not stop. Guess what? they were all people who lived directly at Libby Hill and/or were residents in the surrounding blocks. Neighbors should just stop like they should at the stop sign.
we have plenty of speed hump and roundabouts in church hill. I call them POT HOLES!!!!!!!!!!!
Please…NO MORE ROUNDABOUTS! They don’t work, Richmonders don’t understand them and they are dangerous. Stop signs that are enforced are the answer. Almost daily I see neighbors glide through the stop sign at 29th and Franklin. A few tickets issued and the word would get out.